How would you adjudicate these?(totally writerblocked, please help)

[blackshirt5]

OK, I'm working on a game world, just for fun right now, that I wanna eventually put to use with my group(if it's good I might type it all up and make it available to the populace).

The idea is that the game is a MMORPG, like Everquest or the game in .Hack//Sign. It's meant to be high fantasy, but the system has glitches that can be exploited to hack the game, allowing players who know how to, to do things such as increase their character's stats, fly, give them hacked superweapons, create backdoors into dungeons(this one's still iffy), throw fireballs, and other cool things.

MY problem is, I have no clue at all how I would even begin to create this system. What sounds really cool in my head I can't quite translate to a game mechanic. I was thinking of doing it with skills, but just a generic Hack skill, everybody would dump points into and automatically be able to beat the hell out of each other, and there'd be no real point or sense of pride. At the same time it's still meant to be high fantasy, so there's still magic.

I'm very confused and blocked. Any help is greatly appreciated. If you can point me to an existing system that you think'd help, even, then I'd be grateful.

 

[WayneLigon]

The general 'flavor' of such a thing is generally that it's a hard thing to do, and may carry consequences (such as alerting the Designer that someone is hacking the game; if he deletes your account, you're dead).

The simplest way is to use a Hero Point style system. We'll call them Hack Points. Each character gets a number of Hack Points = to their Int Modifier per 'story arc'. Spending an HP lets you break a specific game rule or environmental rule. Minor 'breaks' can be done with skills, I think, using a X result as some 'Matrix'-like twisting of reality (roll X on a Swim roll, and you swim upstream like a salmon, or something like that; X is a DC you decide on, which should change based on location and how many previous 'hacks' have been made recently - too many, and the Designer can find out who's doing this stuff by reading the anomoly log).

Maybe also let an HP act like a Wish, duplicating spell effects.

 

[SnowDog]

That sounds like an interesting concept!

Clearly you want a system that encourages and rewards creativity on your players' parts. If you spell out every cheat as if it were just an alternate magic spell list, I think it's a bit boring. My gut instinct would be to approach it like the magic system in Ars Magica or Mage: The Ascension; provide your players with ways to build their skill in various "hacking spheres" and then let them combine effects from the spheres in interesting and creative ways. You keep track of guidelines as to the raw power allowed by each level in each sphere, and take it from there. For example:

Maphacking: Allows reading and writing of the in-game map.
Level 1: Any effect which locates a stationary object within X range
Level 2: Determination of type of stationary object
Level 3: Location of moving object
Level 4: Determining type of moving object
Level 5: Adjusting what other people see as your position (game knows where you really are)
etc.

You rank up to say 10 in each hack, and come up with a half-dozen or more types of hacking profiencies.

You then come up with some premade hacks, and then let your players go nuts thinking of more. Like:

Homing Run: Maphacking 4, Packet-Adding 3
Successful use of this hack tells the player the exact location on the map of his nearest enemy within X distance, regardless of any in-game hiding mechanic (invisibility, hiding, etc). By manipulating the command buffer, the character moves to that location at triple speed with no chance of error.

Armor Grabber: Maphacking 2, Packet-Adding 5
Successful use of this hack places the character in a mode where any armor which falls to the ground within reach will instantly be removed from the ground and placed in the character's inventory.

Etc. You do the same, with cheats the players' enemies may possess.

An alternative thought: creating a cheat for the game is like creating a magic item. It takes feats (or skills) to learn how to do it (with better feats granting better cheats), and it takes time and resources to accomplish it. Once you create the cheat, though, it works (until the developers patch the system, say). You could then have an economy where you buy premade cheats and use them, but you never know if the cheat works as advertised, or has a backdoor that is telling your archnemesis your every move.

No matter how you do it, I like the idea that if you get tired of a cheat, or if it's overused, you say the game is patched and it no longer works. This encourages your players to use the cheats more rarely, and in creative ways.

I'm reminded of a game we used to play as kids: Parcheatsi. Basically, you played Parcheesi but cheating was encouraged. If you got caught cheating, though, you got sent back to start or something. Eventually my mother figured out we were playing a game designed to help us become effective liars and nipped it in the bud. Oh well.

 

[Macbeth]

You might take a look at the Deathnet (at least I think thats the name) Minigame in the recent Dungeon. It has much the same flavor, but covers a larger number of genres.

 

[blackshirt5]

Dude, that's an awesome idea, SnowDog! I'm definitely gonna have to build on that.

 

[Magius del Cotto]

The way that I'd handle it would be by "doubling" the characters. One would be the character in the world, who has the classic set of skills/feats/whatever, the other would be the hacker/player. I'd have a set of "spheres" of skills for the player that would look something like this:

Hack(stealth): Your skill in keeping your hacks undetected.
Hack(map): Your skill at hacking into the game's mapping system.
Hack(combat): Your skill at hacking into the game's combat engine.
Social(diplomacy): How well you're able to word your responses. The more diplomatic the player, the more diplomatic the character.
Social(Intimidate): How well you strike fear into others. The more intimidating the player's speech, the more intimidating the character.
Game(Maps): Your ability to map areas of the game and recall how to find things.
Game(Creatures): Your knowledge of the creatures in the game.
etc.

Each of these different categories (Hack, Social, and Game) make things easier for the character, allowing them to gain temporary bonuses or get to equipment more easily (Hack), exceed their normal social skill ranks (Social), or find/know things that the other players wouldn't (Game).
For experience, I'd say that the character gains experience normally (however that is handled), while the player would get a set amount of experience per session (maybe 25 * player level) modified by how far the characters have gone since beginning/new things tried by the players/etc. IMO, this would be the best way to handle things like simulating a MMORPG.
Of course, for the hack skill, there would have to be a way to combine the skills to achieve most of the hacks (such as that posted by SnowDog), but I'll leave the details of that one for others to hash out.
For now...
Magius out.

 

[Macbeth]

Yeah, I think SnowDog's idea beats out Deathnet by a long shot. Deathnet is still a fun little minigame, but I REALLY like that magic/hack system.

 

[blackshirt5]

As do I Macbeth. I think this is gonna be a while for me to build it, but ultimately worth it.

SnowDog-When I originally came up with the idea, the first thing I struck off my list was a predetermined list of all the hacks. Why do that when you've got magic already?

And I also had the idea for the programmers patching the system, but also for them to have "players" they employ to hunt down players who abuse hacks; if caught you're IP is blocked on all but one server; when you log on after banning, you're automatically rerouted to H4XX0RZ H377; the Nutkinland of servers; or more like the Wizards boards of servers, with "k3w7 M0nst4rz~!" running around all over the place that you've gotta hack the hell outta the game to even be able to beat.

 

[SnowDog]

Sounds like some cool ideas going back and forth here. You'll have to let us know how it comes out, if you go anywhere with it. I think splitting up the hacking into various "schools" will give you a lot of mileage, assuming you can do the up-front work to break them up well. That way your characters will be unique. You can have someone who is really good at one kind of hacking, or someone who dabbles in all of it.

My ideas are definitely influenced by Mage: The Ascension, where using magic in obvious ways sets up situations where reality backlashes against you, but if you use it in ways that look coincidental or plausible, you can get away with more.

I think there are some cool ways to work that idea in with your hacking system. Subtle hacks are more likely to go undetected for longer, letting your players get more use out of them. A hack that makes your character one-hit-kill the toughest bosses will work once, and then incur a serious backlash.

I also think you can look to these more free-flowing magic systems for inspiration in terms of game balance and making sure your "hacking schools" are somewhat balanced with respect to each other.

I agree with the suggestion that you might have to look at the dual-persona thing -- you've got the person behind the wheel and the character in the hackable game world. You should decide early on how you want to handle that -- is this more like The Matrix where there's a strong one-to-one correspondence, or is it more video-gamey, where if my Wizard dies I can load up my alternate character, a Fighter?

Another thing you might have to worry about if you're going with the video-gamey feel is keeping it serious for your players. What's the motivation? Unless, of course, you're going for a more campy lighthearted feel. But if you want any serious emotional involvement from the players in the game you might have to make it stand for something more. There has to be a game within your game (within the game). You're not just controlling toons in a MMORPG; there's something else going on.

 

[blackshirt5]

Yeah, I haven't decided on a storyline yet, but it's definitely gonna be something much larger than just that they're playing a game. I'm not sure yet if it's gonna be a strong one to one correspondence between player and character, but maybe; in .Hack//sign we never see them play other characters, right? Plus they can always rez.

I was originally also thinking of doing the dual persona thing and having adventures in real life; one of the ideas I had behind the Hacker's Hell server was that you could get out but it required information both from outside the server and outside the game, so if you got stuck in there you'd have to do a few adventures outside the video game as a way to get away from that level.