How would you adjust the levels of spells for a "limited magic" world?

[Azlan]

Let's say you were designing a campaign with a limited-magic world. I use the descriptive "limited magic" because it is more fitting than "low magic". The world I have in mind is one of historical fantasy, or one that is more akin to Middle Earth than the typical high fantasy worlds of D&D. That is, magic in this world would be limited, and the magical, super-heroic shenanigans found in most other D&D worlds would not be as commonplace in this world.

We would start with spell casting. Now, 3.5 has already toned down many of the spells that were formerly considered to be "uber"; so, much of our work is already done for us. (Some say that 3.5 went too far in this regard, but that is a discussion for another post.) But there would still be some more work to do, in order to get spells to conform to our "limited magic" world.

Without re-writing the entire "Spells" section of the Player's Handbook, there are several relatively easy ways we could accomplish this. First, we could increase the casting time of all spells by one step, so that spells with a casting time of "1 action" would require a full round, while spells with a casting time of "1 round" would require a whole minute.

Second, we could increase the levels of certain spells, thus making them more difficult for casters to attain. But which spells should we affect this way? And by how much?

Just off the top of my head, here are the spells I would affect, and the level increases I would make, in order to make them fit into this "limited magic" world...

ARCANE SPELLS

Magic Missiles: from 1st to 2nd. This is more a balancing issue than anything else, making the other evocation spells of 1st level -- Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp, etc. -- come into more usage.

Fireball: from 3rd to 4th. Again, this is a balancing issue, making Lightning Bolt come into more usage. Furthermore, evocation spells with huge areas of effect, like Fireball, would greatly change strategies and tactics on battlefields.

Rope Trick: from 2nd to 3rd. Leomund's Tiny Hut: from 3rd to 4th. Because convenient magical shelter should not be so easily obtained in this world.

Mount: from 1st to 2nd. Just because magical means of transportation should be generally harder to come by.

Levitate: from 2nd to 3rd. Fly: from 3rd to 4th. We don't want people simply levitating or flying over castle walls. If it were that easy, mundane castles probably wouldn't be built in the first place. (Or at least they'd be far less commonplace.)

DIVINE SPELLS

Create Water: from zero to 1st. Purify Food & Drink: from zero to 1st. Create Food & Water: from 3rd to 4th. Because the easy magical creation or purifying of food and water de-values the work of farmers, gardeners, field laborers, etc.

Stone Shape: from 3rd to 4th. Because we don't want de-value the work of sculptors, stone cutters, masons, etc..

Raise Dead: from 5th to 7th. Resurrection: from 7th to 9th. Because very few people are returned from the dead, in this world.

But this is just a cursory list. What other spells should be affected this way? And why?

 

[Liolel]

I'd suggest you either move all instant kill spells up a level or drop them entirely for causing an oponent to drop dead from a single spell is greatly powerful in a limited magic campaign. Also I'd recommend you drop 9th level spellls entirely except for ones that have raised in level. For killing your enemy with a single word, bending reality, changing your shape in to the mightest of dragons, can be overpowered in a standerd campaign.

 

[WayneLigon]

Let's say you were designing a campaign with a limited-magic world

Andy Collins' website has what I think is a simpler fix for a low magic world: there are no pure spellcasters. You can't be one at first level (with one exception), and then for every level in (spellcaster class) you have, you have to have a level in (nonspellcaster class). Thus, at tenth level, people are just getting the third-level evocation spells since the best anyone could be would be a fifth-level spellcaster.

Check out his Umber design stuff.

 

[Mordane76]

Honestly, I think you're putting too much work into this idea.


Manual of the Planes has differing magical aspects for planes that affect how spells work; this might be a great way to affect the changes you're looking for without having to rebalance the entire Spells section.


Another idea -- make spell-casting into a PrC only thing. This is essentially how it works in d20 Modern; to become a spellcaster, you have to take several levels in base classes to qualify for a spellcasting advance class, if such classes are even available. Instead of revamping the entire Spells section, alter the way PCs gain access to magic.

Another way to do this would be to use half-caster progressions. Look at the ranger, bard, and paladin; they have spellcasting, but not as a primary ability. Now, to limit magic in your world, strip the spellcasting aspects out of these classes, and use it as the spellcasting progression for the primary spellcasters -- this would make access to spells over 5th level impossible in many cases (unless you worked them out as plot elements, which you have control over), and slows access to some of the spells you point to as trouble spells in your setting.


Looking over the list of spells you wish to affect, I see a pattern -- you want normal people to be "normal" people. If that's the case, then play them as such. There is a lot of good information in the Low Magic thread about how to treat PCs who decide to take classes that have access to "miraculous" abilities like create water. Also, there's some good ideas in there on how to stat out the churches of these worlds -- use Experts for the vast majority of the clergy instead of standard clerics, and use standard clerics or the Cloistered Cleric from Unearthed Arcana for the miracle workers of the church, but keep their numbers low. You can easily use RP reasonings to affect the magic level of the world you want, and keep the necessary mechanical changes to a minimum -- this will cut down on your front-end work load required to get your setting off the ground.

 

[Azlan]

Andy Collins' website has what I think is a simpler fix for a low magic world: there are no pure spellcasters. You can't be one at first level (with one exception), and then for every level in (spellcaster class) you have, you have to have a level in (nonspellcaster class). Thus, at tenth level, people are just getting the third-level evocation spells since the best anyone could be would be a fifth-level spellcaster.

While I think it's a good idea to force characters to multi-class rather than allow pure spell casters, I think forcing them to take just as many levels of a non spell casting class goes too far. Myself, I'd like to find some kind of middle ground, here, regarding this particular rules variant.

 

[Perun]

I'd probably take the adept NPC class from the DMG, and make it a bit more player-friendly. The class is limited to 5th level spells, IIRC. So, boost saves a bit, add a couple more skills and skill points, and perhaps some bonus feats. d6 for HD, if it doesn't already have it.

I'd also revise the spell list, and use the witch's spell list (the witch variant spellcaster, also from the DMG) as a guideline. That is, no flashy spells, and a lot illusions and enchantments.

A bard would also be okay, but I'd also limit his max spell level to 5th.

I'd also increase the market price of all magical items by two (at least).

Mind you, this is just throwing some idea. Making D&D balanced, with such drastically reduced level of magic would take a lot of work, I'm afraid.

 

[Schmoe]

First, this topic should probably be in House Rules.

To address your question, though, I have a couple of comments.

1. Increasing casting times. Making every spell have a minimum casting time of 1 round (either full round, or full action) sounds reasonable. However, increasing spells from 1 full round to 1 minute sounds like a bad idea. That rule basically says that any combat spell with a casting time of 1 round is now removed from the game. You simply cannot take 1 minute to cast summon monster I and expect it to do anything. I'd change this so that spells have a minimum casting time of 1 round, but no other changes.

2. Specific spells changing level. Many of these changes seem arbitrary, and more based on a personal dislike of certain "overused" spells than anything else. For example, why increase Fireball and not Lightning Bolt? They are both flashy, powerful evocation spells at 3rd level. If you want to go this route, I would try to be more consistent. Ban or increase the level of all damaging evocation spells, likewise with movement spells, if that's what you're looking for.

Having said that, though, I think that you can accomplish what you are looking for with some different changes. I would try one or more of the following:

1. Limit spellcasting progression to that of the Adept. This greatly delays access to higher level spells.

2. Limit access to spells known, such that a wizard does not automatically gain known spells upon gaining a new spell level. He can research spells he wants to know, and he can track down friendly wizards to trade spells. Of course, in a limited magic setting most wizards might be slightly paranoid of each other. A true ally would be a very valuable commodity. Quests could revolve around seeking out lost magic lore. If you go this route, don't allow sorcerers.

3. Require all spells to have an XP component. Something on the order of the spell level cubed. So a first level spell requires 1 XP. A second level requires 8 XP, and a 5th level requires 125 XP. Under this system, the most that a spell would cost would be 729 XP for a 9th level spell. That will discourage excessive use of higher level magic, but it allows characters to get the dramatic flare when they need it.

Whatever you do, if you want spellcasting to be viable at all, don't limit it too much. Make sure that the rest of the world is sufficiently unprepared for magic in this setting that a player who plays a spellcaster still feels rewarded, despite the drawbacks.

 

[Count Arioch the 28t]

I suggest possibly dropping all spells of 6th level or higher, and have all pure spellcasters have the bard's progression for spellcasting. Or something similiar.

 

[Azlan]

Specific spells changing level. Many of these changes seem arbitrary, and more based on a personal dislike of certain "overused" spells than anything else. For example, why increase Fireball and not Lightning Bolt? They are both flashy, powerful evocation spells at 3rd level. If you want to go this route, I would try to be more consistent. Ban or increase the level of all damaging evocation spells, likewise with movement spells, if that's what you're looking for.

No, it isn't because of a personal dislike of those spells. It's because those spells don't appear with much frequency in the legends and folklore of our world, nor do they appear with much frequency in worlds such as Middle Earth.

Furthermore, one should ponder what affect on a world those spells would have, if they appeared with as much freqeuncy as they do in the typical D&D campaign. How would such spells affect the world's economy and jobs? How would such spells affect the cultivating, gathering, and storing of natural resources? How would such spells affect strategies and tactics on the battlefield? Again, the world I'm striving for here is one like Middle Earth, not like the Forgotten Realms.

Whatever you do, if you want spellcasting to be viable at all, don't limit it too much. Make sure that the rest of the world is sufficiently unprepared for magic in this setting that a player who plays a spellcaster still feels rewarded, despite the drawbacks.

Agreed. If we're going to, say, reduce the spells per day of a wizard to that of a bard, then the wizard should be given a higher hit die or something, to compensate. If we're going to increase the levels of certain spells, and if we're going to increase the casting times of all spells by one step, then perhaps the DCs of saving throws against spells should be higher. (After all, people and creatures of this world might have less resistances to magic, being that they have not been exposed to it as much, throughout their generations.)

 

[Azlan]

Looking over the list of spells you wish to affect, I see a pattern -- you want normal people to be "normal" people. If that's the case, then play them as such. There is a lot of good information in the Low Magic thread about how to treat PCs who decide to take classes that have access to "miraculous" abilities like create water. Also, there's some good ideas in there on how to stat out the churches of these worlds -- use Experts for the vast majority of the clergy instead of standard clerics, and use standard clerics or the Cloistered Cleric from Unearthed Arcana for the miracle workers of the church, but keep their numbers low. You can easily use RP reasonings to affect the magic level of the world you want, and keep the necessary mechanical changes to a minimum -- this will cut down on your front-end work load required to get your setting off the ground.

But with those changes just to the NPCs, you'd still have player characters flying over castle walls and blasting scores of soldiers on the battlefields with fireballs. What I'm striving for here is a quantified system that affects NPCs and PCs alike.