D&D (2024) How would you change skills in 5.5e

[Mirrorrorrim]

Definitely. Right now it's...

Player: 'I'm going to search for secret doors'
GM: 'Alright, roll Investigation'
Player: 'Oh, uh, I'm not a Wizard so I have no reason to have Int. What if I just step into the room and randomly glance around?'
GM: 'Finally! Then you can roll Perception as intended!'

Looking at the new Actions in the Playtest, I think they do dileneate out those differences. "Search" uses Wisdom skills to finds things that are hidden or obscured. "Study" uses Intelligence skills to remember/deduce facts and solutions.

So maybe you use...

1. The Search Action, using Wisdom (Perception) to detect the presence of a trap. You don't need this if there is a unhidden riddle or puzzle.
2. The Study Action, using Intelligence (Investigate) to figure out how the trap/riddle/puzzle works.
3. The Study Action, using Intelligence (Arcana) to figure out how bypass a magical trap.
4. A Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check (with advantage if you use to Thieves Tools) to disable a physical trap.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

But the 5e system solhows cracks in its base play.

Remember 5e was designed using a survey base that no longer matches the current player base.

It doesn't do what current DMs and Players want it to do.

5e needs more skills because the players and DMs call for actions that have no skill or combinations of skill+ability the system doesn't have.

I mean one of the BIGGEST complaints is that warrior classes lack skills for their main attributes unless they go Dex. There is only 1 Strength skill and 0 Con skills.

I can easily bring both to 3 skills each that fans call for as checks and would appreciate as skills.

Zero Constitution skills is almost objectively bad design.

OK, here's a project.

What are other Strength or Constitution-based ability checks that exist, that are best represented by being able to train in them? They need to be represented by skills that are so integral that they deserve to be in the Skill list, especially following the rules of ability checks that skills don't add new actions or powers? We also cannot include rolls that are best depicted to avoid harm, like saving throws.

I'll take a stab:

Strength (Exert Might) - This is Bend Bars/Lift Gates/Bust Down Doors/Toss Dwarves.
Constitution (Endurance) - Forced March? Running Duration? Holding Breath? (Seems like a Saving Throw after you go so far, not a skill)

That's it! I would not separate out Climb, Swim, and Jump from Athletics.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The problem is that either the Face has all the skills, and so is rolling Cha + Prof for everything, generally against the same DC (in which case the chosen approach becomes irrelevant), or they only have one and so use that one approach for everything.

Not IME. We rarely have 1 easily distinguished “face”, and if I’m running, you don’t want to silo competencies like that. That’s a group weakness, and adventurers make enemies. Besides, players IME don’t want to play optimized cheese like that, they just want to make the character and see how it goes.

All that to say, the PC who is very persuasive has one of the other Cha skills, not all of them, and even where there is overlap, who is taking point in a scene depends on the circumstance more than who is “best” at the thing.

IMO it would be better to have one skill (or, as I suggested, proficiency in social groups), and move the Intimidate/Persuade distinction to the other side of the screen - published adventures should do a better job of calling out that NPCs react differently to different approaches. The DMG should also provide similar guidance too, for people to fail to read.

I’m definitely a more skills the better guy, so I don’t think I’ll ever see the appeal of combining all social interaction into 1 skill.

I want levers and dials to use that are different from eachother in social challenges, exploration, and combat, not just combat.

 

[Minigiant]

OK, here's a project.

What are other Strength or Constitution-based ability checks that exist, that are best represented by being able to train in them? They need to be represented by skills that are so integral that they deserve to be in the Skill list, especially following the rules of ability checks that skills don't add new actions or powers? We also cannot include rolls that are best depicted to avoid harm, like saving throws.

Like I said , the skill list should reflect the way players play.

If any skill can be used with any ability score and is expected to be so, then the skill list should shrink

Athletics
Bard
Conversation
Knowledge
Perception
Rangery
Stealth
Thievery

If each skill is intended to represent a common action or skill performed by D&D adventurers which could be challenged by monsters, obstacles or tasks. Especially when skill proficency is handed out frequently.

• Strength
  • Athletics
  • Demolition
  • Menace
  • Weightlifting
• Dexterity
  • Acrobatics
  • Sleight of Hand
  • Stealth
• Constitution
  • Drinking Tolerance
  • Endurance
• Intelligence
  • Academia
  • Appraisal
  • Arcana
  • History
  • Investigation
  • Nature
  • Nobility
  • Religion
  • Underworld
• Wisdom
  • Animal Handling
  • Insight
  • Medicine
  • Perception
  • Survival
• Charisma
  • Barter
  • Deception
  • Flattery
  • Intimidation
  • Performance
  • Persuasion
  • Streetwise

I've rolled more meaningful checks to win drinking contests and flatter nobles than Performance checks in 5e.

 

[The Myopic Sniper]

I think there are still far, far too many skills. I'd reduce it to just 6 -- one for each characteristic. Then, you don't need skill names!

Those skills could then act as saving throw proficiencies as well. That would definitely help in streamlining the game.

As it is, I feel like 5e has either too many or too few skills, and not the right ones, but I generally understand how they ended up where they did.

 

[Kinematics]

I'd rebuild it as ~9 basic skills, with fine-tuning based on what attribute is used. A rough first draft:

Athletics

• Str: Athletics (running, jumping, climbing, swimming)
• Dex: Acrobatics (balance, coordination)
• Int: Training (weapon, armor, etc)
• Wis: First Aid
• Cha: Modeling, physical performances

Awareness

• Dex: Active Reaction (Initiative)
• Wis: Perception, Stealth
• Cha: Insight

Dextrousness

• Dex: Sleight of Hand
• Int: Fine manipulation (clocks, traps, etc)
• Wis: Quick reaction (catching someone who tripped, catching an object thrown at you, etc)

Investigation

• Int: Search, Find traps
• Wis: Track person
• Cha: Streetwise

Lore

• Int: Arcana, History
• Wis: Religion, Proverbs
• Cha: Stories

Manipulation

• Wis: Deception
• Cha: Persuasion, Barter, Negotiation
• Str/Cha: Intimidation (Insight check first to know what will work)

Medicine

• Dex: Surgery
• Int: Diagnosis
• Wis: Treatments (medicines, herbs, potions, antidotes, etc)

Nature

• Int: Plant/animal lore
• Wis: Animal tracking/training, Survival
• Cha: Animal handling/taming/training

Performance

• Dex: Juggling
• Wis: Oration
• Cha: Acting, Impersonation, Music

 

[CreamCloud0]

Constitution

• Drinking Tolerance
• Endurance

this is an interesting idea, maybe we could even go a step further with a 'recovery' skill, an inverse skill to Tolerance which represents your capacity to prevent/endure harm where Recovery represents your capacity to come back from harm, a high Tolerance means you're unlikely to succumb to status in the first place but a high recovery means that when you do succumb you recover more quickly

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I just really don't like skills that are passive. If we have to have Constitution, I think its skills should at least be stuff like...

Carousing - the real way to Gather Information!
Drink Up - when you roll initiative you can choose to roll this too, risking negative effects for a shot at a random positive effect
Xtreme - when doing something really stupid and dangerous that will do you bodily harm, use this skill instead of the usual skill

 

[tetrasodium]

People looking for con based skills should add a ride skill, although making that matter requires the missing movement adjustments once present that made mounted combat desirable in past editions

 

[Minigiant]

this is an interesting idea, maybe we could even go a step further with a 'recovery' skill, an inverse skill to Tolerance which represents your capacity to prevent/endure harm where Recovery represents your capacity to come back from harm, a high Tolerance means you're unlikely to succumb to status in the first place but a high recovery means that when you do succumb you recover more quickly

Recovery is too passive. Skills should be things that a PC actively do that might happen a few times in an campaign.

Drinking/Tolerance are good as PCs often enter drinking, eating, and slapping contests.

Endurance is matching and long distance or long term action.

And as @tetrasodium suggests, Riding should be Con.