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How would you defend your subterranean kingdom?

Gez

First Post
A little note, goblins are not chaotic evil. Well, they can be, but usually, they are Neutral

Evil; with Hobgoblins as the lawful branch of goblinkin, and bugbears as the chaotic one.

Some goblins would be spellcasters. Sorcerers, clerics, adepts, psions (if you use them, see

the Blue Goblins, who -- by the way -- are smarter and wiser than most other humanoids; and I tend to always have a Blue Council has leader of my most successfull and wealthy goblin tribes). Even the occasional goblin wizard, maybe. Mind you, when you're lazy, but you can rely on spells, digging miles and miles of tunnels is not that hard. Someone mentionned using Transmute Stone to Flesh, which also has the advantage of feeding the tribe. But other spells may be used (Transmute Rock to Mud, or Soften Earth and Stone, for example). Inversely, transmute Mud to Rock can allow to avoid needing timber (which usually do not grow underground). In a more evil way, Flesh to Stone can provide with nice solid support and a good punishment for the rebellious goblin or any intruder.

Also, domesticated beasts like ankhegs can help greatly in digging. Look at their freaking

burrowing speed !

Don't forget that goblins can be spellcasters too, and not all spellcasting requires extremely

expensive and complicated training. If you're a lucky goblin king, you could even get hold of

some magical items that can purely and simply suppress the need for ventilation in some pieces

(see the wondrous items in the DMG).

Sure, airtight doors and piece of fine clockwork mechanism are the domain of dwarves and

gnomes. But the water-filled U-passages are a cheap alternative to airtight doors, and adding

portcullis at both ends of the underwater part is not beyond goblin means. Simple, nasty, and

lethal to mobs and low-level parties.

Otherwise, goblins would make great use of luring intruders into a neighbor's domain. The

supreme cowardly fighting technique consist of making other people fight for you. An

adventuring party, out to root out some goblin tribe, who fall in the middle of a dragon

lair/drow trading hub/illithid city/orc training field, or, more perversely, myconid hippy

meeting (with all those hallucinogenic spores floating in the air) may forget completely the

goblins and flee if they don't want to be roasted/branded as slave/mindwiped/butchered by axe

and spear, or, in the myconid case, doomed to sit with a silly smile, lauging inanely until

they starve to death.

If your neighbors become a problem (say the drow or mind-flayers want slaves, or the orcs

wants more territories), use the same tactic, and lead them to an other neighbor. Loss should

be minimal, and you should be able to simply dodge most of the assault troops.

Of course, if your citie's precise location is known, that may not work. Secrecy is your ally.

To ensure your base's position stays a mystery, do not dig robust tunnels. Dig frail ones.

Periodically open new ones and let the older collapse. As I said, digging is not a problem in

fantasy, unless you deny goblins the right to wield magic AND to tame digging beasties. The

constant shifting of the accessway to your kingdom will complicate the task for all

longer-lived intruders, who will probably have scouts and advisors who will remember obsolete

path and be delayed by all sorts of dead-ends, new intersections, and new perils.

Also, not all passageway should be guarded and heavily trapped. Just make the other less

convenient. For example, the vertical shaft thing could be used in the tunnel toward the most

dangerous foe, but if you need to get your worgs and wolves in, you will make them pass

through another passage. Who care if that passage involves a 2-day trip because of all its

twist and turns ? You'll probably won't need to get your worgs up and down everyday, otherwise

you would more simply split them into two packs, have one in the goblin city, and the other in

a temporary surface camp somewhere.


Another cheap trap idea: An access tunnel (natural, or dug) with stalactites (fake if you had

to dig the tunnel) cut and shaped so they won't bother a goblin running stooped, but will

occasionnally hurt someone taller. If you attach horizontal pikes on them, that will not

necessarily be a deadly trap, but that will force pursuers to move carefully, i.e. slowly.

The idea is not to have every corridors worked as such (that would be a pain in the arse), but

simply to lure intruders into these tunnels, for example by having a hit'n'fade strike team

flee by such a tunnel. Even better, you could have some goblin "gardeners" growing

subterranean assassin vine (see MM pages 20-21) in the ceiling of some tunnels, cutting them

precautionnously so that they can't reach a goblin, but could aim for the neck of a human,

elf, dwarf, or orc (kobolds, gnomes and halflings are another problem -- by the way, gnomes

make horrible slaves, with their Ghost Sound ventriloquism trick used to lure the taskmaster

away while rats to which they have talked (rats are burrowing mammals) chew their rope and

they escape; better use kobolds, more efficient miners, easier to frighten and coerce, and who

don't need firelight and thus risk firedamp explosion).



Finally, latest cheap trick (but that may hurt the pride of a goblin king): make yourself the

vassals of something more powerful. A red dragon, a drow city... Have your city be on the

other side of that liege's location relative to your usual victim. Advantage: retaliation

strike force, out to assault your goblin tribe, will get a nasty surprise. Flaw of the

technique: you will have to pay for safe passage through your liege's lair, and that will cut

much of your plunder; meaning you probably can't afford a failure in your pillaging raid.


Of course, retreat and flight is always an option. Better exiled than dead.


I recognise that IMC, goblins, although they are not bronzed gods, are less stupid than usual. Mainly the fact that the goblins who really matter are ruled by councils of goblins with +2 Int, +4 Wis racial bonus, and innate psychic powers (funny note: my Elminster equivalent in the role of "the sage who knows pretty much everything about anything" is a true-neutral "Blue" seer/psionic loremaster, leader of an international spy network, heheheh). Also, although the majority of them are NE, the biggest minority of alignment is LE.
 

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mmadsen

First Post
A little note, goblins are not chaotic evil. Well, they can be, but usually, they are Neutral Evil; with Hobgoblins as the lawful branch of goblinkin, and bugbears as the chaotic one.
Weird. They seem like the exemplars of Chaotic Evil. Know what's even weirder? First-edition Goblins are Lawful Evil.
 

mmadsen

First Post
Otherwise, goblins would make great use of luring intruders into a neighbor's domain. The supreme cowardly fighting technique consist of making other people fight for you. An adventuring party, out to root out some goblin tribe, who fall in the middle of a dragon lair/drow trading hub/illithid city/orc training field, or, more perversely, myconid hippy meeting (with all those hallucinogenic spores floating in the air) may forget completely the goblins and flee if they don't want to be roasted/branded as slave/mindwiped/butchered by axe and spear, or, in the myconid case, doomed to sit with a silly smile, lauging inanely until they starve to death.
That's what being a Goblin is all about -- dropping your enemies into the dragon's lair or into a cavern full of toxic fungi. (That second option is oddly Fu-Manchu.)
 
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Nail

First Post
mmadsen said:

Weird. They seem like the exemplars of Chaotic Evil. Know what's even weirder? First-edition Goblins are Lawful Evil.
Very strange. I can jus' see the ordered ranks of goblins now....

I've looked over that 3e MM stat block how many times, and missed th' NE part...vision is th' first t' go, I guess.

At any rate, NE goblins work fine. They're still out for themselves, and not concerned with "promoting chaos" or "freedom" ....just with protecting/feeding/making rich ole number one.

Nifft...I'd be interested seeing a blow-by-blow of how the goblin ambush went against yer PCs.

An' I'll tell ye what: I'll even read a 5 page thread t' see it. :p

Otherwise, post here where you've started another thread on th' subject.
 
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Nifft

Penguin Herder
Here it is without fun charactarization:

PC: Ranger, Cleric, Wizard, Rogue
NPC: Paladin, 3 Fighters

Party Gets Caps, goblins don't get caps.

They had the Ranger out in front, who failed two Spot checks. The caravan was ambushed.

Round 0:

Three goblin worgriders jumped from the bushes and took potshots at the Ranger.

At the same time, four goblin rogues got shots off. Two hit the Cleric, who was the caravan's rearguard.

Round 1:

The Paladin takes a Spirited Charge at one of the worgriders. As it turns out, she picked the band's leader (the Smart Lieutenant).

The Ranger fires at one of the worgriders and misses.

The Cleric and Rogue move to investigate the bushes where the goblin rogues are hiding. Three NPC Fighters go with them.

The Wizard fires his crossbow into the bushes, missing totally.

The goblin rogues all attack, focusing on the Cleric. Several hit. They call for thier mounts, who run up.

The worgriders take potshots at the Ranger and Paladin. One hits the Ranger.

Round 3:

The Paladin reaches the lieutenant and smites him good. He's reduced to single-digit hit points. Barely holding on to his worg, he runs away and calls for the others to follow.

The other two worgriders take parting shots at the Ranger and Paladin, hitting only the Ranger (poor guy). Then they turn and run.

The Cleric tries to dismount next to the line of rogues, and falls on his face. If only the rogues hadn't just heard the "Run Away!" signal, they would probably have finished him off. Instead, they mount up.

One of the NPC Fighters strikes a mounting goblin rogue and kills him. The riderless worg attacks the nearest horse, belonging to another NPC Fighter, and hurts it badly.

The worgs carrying rogues move away.

Round 4:

The riderless worg kills the horse, then moves away. Two attacks of opportunity and several arrows miss it.



Analysis:

The party had magic but totally failed to use it. They did not have a good ambush strategy (even though they'd been hired because of the threat of ambushes). The fact that they survived with so little injury was due to luck.

Later, I had the two worgriders ride up behind the caravan and take a few potshots at the party's horses, then ran away. The party was very paranoid after that... They've got a healthy respect for goblinoids now.

-- Nifft
 

Set

First Post
The Dungeonbred template from Dungeonscape (p 112-113) would seem like a useful thing for Goblins to use on their Worgs, if they were strictly subterranean.

Given their 30' land speed, despite thier Small size, Goblins would seem to make natural Scouts as well. Lots of 'drive-by' archery attacks.
 

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