D&D 1E How would you emulate a 1E/2E Cloak of Elvenkind?

[Felix]

Originally posted by Kai Lord
The discussion (which I thought was quite obvious) was how to emulate the old Cloak of Elvenkind with 3E mechanics...

Dude, that's what they're trying to do! In order to do that, however, you need to agree upon what the 1e mechanics are. After you do that, then you can talk about making trips to Kae Yoss's Bargain Basement Artifact Emporium.

I'm siding with dcollins about the 1e mechanics.

I also think, as Crothian does, that Hide as a skill is far and away better than Invisibility as you progress through the game.

Think of it this way: your "Cloak of Elven-Kind" gives you a Predator-like light bending shield. Even so, you can be noticed. If you walk to fast, you bump into things. If you get in bright light, the light distortion doesn't help too much (hey, Painless hit him, didn't it?). ie, you still have to do all those things which you need to do to make a Hide check. In the end, what does it make you do? Better at hiding (like +10 better). No need to go into this "Elven cloak of Blurred-Invisibilistic-Deplacemental-Blinking" and its consequently confusing mechanics.

Just a +10 to Hide checks.

 

[Kai Lord]

Dude, that's what they're trying to do!

No, that's what everyone else is trying to do, and their feedback, including yours, is appreciated. KaeYoss just complained that it was too cheap, broken, and something he didn't like. Basically offering no contribution to the thread whatsoever.

 

[The_lone_gunman]

Here I will give you a hand


Improved Cloak of Elvenkind

When the hood of this finely made cloak is pulled up over your head (a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity), the cloak bends light around you and provides you with a +20 circumstance bonus to your hide skill. This ability also allows you to "hide in plain sight", as per the Shadowdance ability. Standing still for one round will render you invisibile on the round after you stop moving, unless bright light is brought into the area. The hide bonus drops down to +10 in bright light (Daylight spell or greater) or when you move at more than 1/2 your base speed. Detection spells that see invisibile creatures negates the ability of this item.

Base Cost: 18,000 gp (a little less than a ring of inv)
Spells needed: Blur, Invisibility

What do you think? Is that what you are looking for?

TLG

 

[Kai Lord]

And yes, something Predator-like is exactly what I'm going for. Full invisibility would be too good and the flavor isn't quite right, because this character has had this cloak for a long time and it never gave him perfect invisibility.

But it also wasn't something that "activated" only when he tried to hide. If he had the cloak hood pulled up and was just chilling he was still very hard to see whether or not he specifically stated "I'm trying to Hide."

 

[Kai Lord]

What do you think? Is that what you are looking for?

I like it, and may just steal it. Very nice.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Tell you what, we'll just say my character's Cloak of Elvenkind is an artifact worth a jallion bajillion gold pieces, and it behaves exactly like the 1E Cloaks did. The discussion (which I thought was quite obvious) was how to emulate the old Cloak of Elvenkind with 3E mechanics, not whether or not it was a good buy at KaeYoss's Discount Magic Emporium.

This means walking around with no cover and being able to pass by unseen sometimes even in the middle of a Daylight spell.

No call to make cynical remarks.

What was the price of that thing in 2e, anyway?

 

[Kae'Yoss]

So, near invisibility is better then invisibility? You need an prestige class for an ability that is not as good as a second level spell?

No. But near invisibility at will is better than invisibility that only works until you attack, or will go away after a couple of minutes. The cloak enabled you to use it the whole day long. You'll need a lot of 2nd-level spells to emulate that. Or burn a 10th-level spell slot and a feat to make it a spell-like ability usable at will.

They changed the items becasue they used to work on a wierd percentage chance of detetection that was very cumbersome to use. It had nothing to do with the power of the items.

So a non-artifact, non-epic item (which wasn't that expensive, IIRC) that allows you to become almost invisible as often as you want (something that even the most accomplished thief couldn't do, since they could only put 95% into Hide in Shadows, not 100, and that no spellcaster could do either, because his spell slots are limited) is not to powerful? Go figure.

I do not understnd your reasoning at all, basically becasue you didn't give any.

Well, I did give a reason, so every problems understanding or finding it lies with you, obviously.

Also, the Hide skill is many times better then Invisibility, because hide is an oppossed skill, and invisibility is a set DC. So, with hi hide skill you can easily get above the set DC and no one will ever have a chance of finding you.

Unless your DM has Common Sense (A DM bonus feat which every DM with Int 10+ gets for free): If an invisible enemy is right in front of me, without any cover and in a brigtly lit room, I still must make a spot check to pinpoint him. If a hiding enemy is right in front of, without any cover and in a brightly lit area, no hide check will prevent me from seeing him (at least not below the hundreds).