D&D 5E How would YOU nerf the wizard? +

[Lanefan]

Ugh. No. I would hate trying to cast detect magic on a piece of treasure and TPK the party by summoning a demon. Any game built like this would be fun for a session while I try to figure out how many character sheets I can make my party and I go through in a session, but I would hate to play it as a regular game.

The way I have it, the only way you'd ever be able to summon a demon via casting Detect Magic would be to have your casting interrupted and then hit some very unlikely (and unlucky!) rolls on the surge table.

That, and I've tried to make sure the odds of getting a major bad surge are vaguely similar to those of getting a major good surge; with most of the results (and by far the higher odds) being fairly mundane with a very intentional slant toward the humourous.

 

[Gammadoodler]

The way I have it, the only way you'd ever be able to summon a demon via casting Detect Magic would be to have your casting interrupted and then hit some very unlikely (and unlucky!) rolls on the surge table.

That, and I've tried to make sure the odds of getting a major bad surge are vaguely similar to those of getting a major good surge; with most of the results (and by far the higher odds) being fairly mundane with a very intentional slant toward the humourous.

Another way to approach it would be to find a way to link the potential magic surges to spell level and/or spell school.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Another way to approach it would be to find a way to link the potential magic surges to spell level and/or spell school.

I like it! That approaches the DCC method, where each spell has it's own mishap table.

 

[Voadam]

From the modelling fiction in stories, movies, and comics I don't see a lot of actual wizards screwing up spells when casting. Most just work unless they are interrupted while casting. Sometimes they miss with a blast or Conan shakes off a spell, but the wizard does not fail to cast them.

Doctor Strange in the movie when he is learning magic as an apprentice has some trouble casting at first but never after he actually learns magic.

There is also the Gray Mouser screwing up casting from a scroll, but he abandoned wizardry before finishing his apprenticeship and he is known as a master thief and swordsman.

The one that comes to mind is comedy relief Orko from He-Man. Possibly Presto from the D&D cartoon who seems to be a bit more a kid trying to use a magic hat magic item Greatest American Hero style than spellbook casting from my memory (it has been a while for both 80s cartoons).

 

[Gammadoodler]

I like it! That approaches the DCC method, where each spell has it's own mishap table.

Yeah, could be something like that, or, if you're using a large consolidated tables, you make sure that the larger spell slots will generally roll larger numbers with more impactful consequences.

Something like for each spell level you roll an additional die when determining the consequences.

Would need to figure out the best way to limit fiddliness.

 

[Gammadoodler]

From the modelling fiction in stories, movies, and comics I don't see a lot of actual wizards screwing up spells when casting. Most just work unless they are interrupted while casting. Sometimes they miss with a blast or Conan shakes off a spell, but the wizard does not fail to cast them.

Doctor Strange in the movie when he is learning magic as an apprentice has some trouble casting at first but never after he actually learns magic.

There is also the Gray Mouser screwing up casting from a scroll, but he abandoned wizardry before finishing his apprenticeship and he is known as a master thief and swordsman.

The one that comes to mind is comedy relief Orko from He-Man. Possibly Presto from the D&D cartoon who seems to be a bit more a kid trying to use a magic hat magic item Greatest American Hero style than spellbook casting from my memory (it has been a while for both 80s cartoons).

The whole most recent Spiderman movie is predicated on Dr. Strange botching a spell and ripping holes (plural) in the multiverse.

Edit: And he wasn't even in combat..just in close proximity to a chatty teenager.

 

[TwoSix]

Fair. I see wild magic as much more an arcane/Mage thing (and, if they must be casters, a Bard thing) than a divine/Cleric thing. Clerics have deities behind them making sure things work properly.

Thinking about it a little more, I would be wary of combining "methodologies/play types" onto exact fictional elements. A player might hate randomness but also hate playing divine tropes, or any type of cleric/divine character.

I think there's three broad types of magic "play types" that should be supported.

Simple (little-to-no resource management, a few broad tricks)
Complex-reliable (magic just goes off, resource regulated, classic D&D)
Complex-random (skill checks, unforeseen consequences, "wild magic", DCC would be the exemplar here)

Ideally, each of the "flavors" of magic (arcane, divine, primal/druidic, psionic, occult/warlock, song/bard) would have the capability to support all 3 "play types", so that a player could play a simple "druid" or a wild surging bard if they desire.

 

[Remathilis]

The way I have it, the only way you'd ever be able to summon a demon via casting Detect Magic would be to have your casting interrupted and then hit some very unlikely (and unlucky!) rolls on the surge table.

That, and I've tried to make sure the odds of getting a major bad surge are vaguely similar to those of getting a major good surge; with most of the results (and by far the higher odds) being fairly mundane with a very intentional slant toward the humourous.

This is purely a play style difference, but even the idea of casting a fairly mundane utility spell and getting caught in a rainstorm of ducks doesn't appeal. I don't like magic being an I Win button, but I don't want it to be a slot machine either.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This is purely a play style difference, but even the idea of casting a fairly mundane utility spell and getting caught in a rainstorm of ducks doesn't appeal. I don't like magic being an I Win button, but I don't want it to be a slot machine either.

Not a slot machine. More like a skill roll with consequences for failure.

 

[Horwath]

Not a slot machine. More like a skill roll with consequences for failure.

it's still a slot machine if you rely on d20 on what are you going to get.