Human Heroic Effort versus Elven Accuracy

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I will also note that elven accuracy gives you a chance to turn a miss into a critical...not just a hit.

Yes, that's what I thought, too.

So they are difficult to compare they have different advantages and disadvantages.

 

[Klaus]

Personally I think the human power is better since it can apply to saves, skill checks, etc. as well as attacks. But the elven power is still good. And if the human rolls a 1 on his attack, even using the power won't help, whereas the elf can get a second chance on that 1.

Actually, only attacks and saves.

 

[Pickles JG]

I usually know if I am close with an attack roll & I always tell players bad guys AC after a round or 2, or they figure it out, which makes the human power better - probably "too good" better, +2 might be enough. Then again I would like to see more human PCs.

 

[Zieche]

Did anyone take into account that the elven power can be upgraded with Feats to add a +2 or a +D4? I feel that really adds to the elf's chances.

 

[Zieche]

**apologies for double post**

 

[Thalionalfirin]

Did anyone take into account that the elven power can be upgraded with Feats to add a +2 or a +D4? I feel that really adds to the elf's chances.

If you include feat support, the elf is much better off in trying to turn a miss into a hit. Both the +2 and +d4 stack, I believe... and if you want to go real crazy and burn feats on it, there's a 3rd feat which allows 2 rolls instead of one. I've used the third one... and I have turned misses into crits several times.

It's a most glorious turn of events when that happens because I always use them on encounter and daily powers.

 

[Rex Blunder]

Let's throw the Deva ability into the mix. The Human +4 is strictly better than the Deva +1d6, right? (Although there may be cases where you KNOW you need a +5 or a +6 to hit, they may be rare.)

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Let's throw the Deva ability into the mix. The Human +4 is strictly better than the Deva +1d6, right? (Although there may be cases where you KNOW you need a +5 or a +6 to hit, they may be rare.)

Well, the Deva also has a lot of feat support, Magic of the Ages turns it into a 1d6+1, Immortal Skill makes all rolls of the d6 at least a 3 (or 4 if you have a d8) for skill checks. Immortal Resilience does the same for death saves. Immortal Prowess does it for attack rolls. Eternal Void Memories makes it also a damage bonus. Well, etc. The feat that boosts the check to a d8 is nice too. So one can do a LOT of cool stuff with the Deva's bonus. At it's most vanilla it is inferior to Human Versatility, but most Devas are going to pump that up a good bit.

 

[Artoomis]

It's not really fair to include feats into the comparison, as that is a great unknown for humans at this point. For all we know, some feast to improve Heroic Effort are right around the corner.

 

[Riastlin]

Aye, the elf has a chance to improve the Elven Accuracy with Feats, but its entirely possible the human does as well, we just don't know yet.

Personally, my opinion is that purely in terms of attacking power, Elven Accuracy is better; however, the human power is more versatile, and thus balanced. Plus most groups (in my experience anyway) will always be succesful with Human Heroic Effort whereas Elven Accuracy will always have a chance to miss. All in all, I would say that they are balanced, the only caveat is that to get the Human power, you need to give something else up -- this isn't an issue in some classes, but in others it might be.