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Humor (sort of): Do you do these ILLEGAL things? An informal poll.
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4779360" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>Part of what the Pirate Bay case is about, for instance, is that torrents are not "files for download," but aggregates of files on multiple computers: bits and pieces that individual users reassemble. So the Pirate Bay isn't hosting anything aside from links. It's pretty clearly not illegal to link to stuff on the internet, and Sweden has broader "fair use" laws, so torrents in and of themselves (and other file-sharing programs) are clearly legal there (just as they are, still, here in the US -- though using them to infringe copyright is illegal).</p><p></p><p>In addition, the fact of the matter is that the people who download files aren't being brought to court for theft of any sort -- they're being brought for copyright infringement: making illegal copies of something.</p><p></p><p>Making copies of something certainly has a very sketchy history. No one owns a copyright on the wheel, or fire, or language, or agriculture. Gutenburg doesn't own a copyright on the printed page. King James doesn't have exclusive domain over English copies of the bible. Copyright law is a fairly recent branch of law, and how legally wrong it is to make a copy of something without the original maker's OK has changed a lot over the years. </p><p></p><p>It has never, to the best of my knowledge, been much of a moral problem for anyone. Making free copies of things is just a threat to those who get paid to make and sell copies of things, so an industry would like to preserve their business model. </p><p></p><p>The area is <strong>very</strong> grey, even legally (since copyright law was never made for this kind of massive action against individual citizens), and is a product of recent copying technologies, from the printing press to the photocopier to, ultimately, the computer, which makes copies of things as part of its normal operating process, and can make copies of things we couldn't make copies of before. </p><p></p><p>I mean, look at the Betamax case. </p><p></p><p>Copyright laws are not about a collective morality, nor are they an extension of theft. Their original purpose was to support capitalism of art, which is a pretty narrow and recent niche. Michelangelo didn't need copyright protection, y'know? It's not immoral to change a business model. Most human art was produced without it (and without capitalism, too!). Changing these existing business models might have some unfortunate ramifications, and it's clearly not a holistic GOOD, either, but it is not, on any level, on par with stabbing someone in a dark alley and taking their wallet, or even threatening to. </p><p></p><p>Morally, I'd say it's about on par with smoking marajuana or drinking or jaywalking or speeding, which are also recent, niche, narrow, modern laws that have a very debatable effect on public behavior.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 4779360, member: 2067"] Part of what the Pirate Bay case is about, for instance, is that torrents are not "files for download," but aggregates of files on multiple computers: bits and pieces that individual users reassemble. So the Pirate Bay isn't hosting anything aside from links. It's pretty clearly not illegal to link to stuff on the internet, and Sweden has broader "fair use" laws, so torrents in and of themselves (and other file-sharing programs) are clearly legal there (just as they are, still, here in the US -- though using them to infringe copyright is illegal). In addition, the fact of the matter is that the people who download files aren't being brought to court for theft of any sort -- they're being brought for copyright infringement: making illegal copies of something. Making copies of something certainly has a very sketchy history. No one owns a copyright on the wheel, or fire, or language, or agriculture. Gutenburg doesn't own a copyright on the printed page. King James doesn't have exclusive domain over English copies of the bible. Copyright law is a fairly recent branch of law, and how legally wrong it is to make a copy of something without the original maker's OK has changed a lot over the years. It has never, to the best of my knowledge, been much of a moral problem for anyone. Making free copies of things is just a threat to those who get paid to make and sell copies of things, so an industry would like to preserve their business model. The area is [B]very[/B] grey, even legally (since copyright law was never made for this kind of massive action against individual citizens), and is a product of recent copying technologies, from the printing press to the photocopier to, ultimately, the computer, which makes copies of things as part of its normal operating process, and can make copies of things we couldn't make copies of before. I mean, look at the Betamax case. Copyright laws are not about a collective morality, nor are they an extension of theft. Their original purpose was to support capitalism of art, which is a pretty narrow and recent niche. Michelangelo didn't need copyright protection, y'know? It's not immoral to change a business model. Most human art was produced without it (and without capitalism, too!). Changing these existing business models might have some unfortunate ramifications, and it's clearly not a holistic GOOD, either, but it is not, on any level, on par with stabbing someone in a dark alley and taking their wallet, or even threatening to. Morally, I'd say it's about on par with smoking marajuana or drinking or jaywalking or speeding, which are also recent, niche, narrow, modern laws that have a very debatable effect on public behavior. [/QUOTE]
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