D&D 5E I’d be glad for MAD

[Warpiglet-7]

So I recently rolled some stats that would allow for 16s in two mental stats (chr and int) if I take a tiefling or half elf, while still having decent con and dex.

I was excited; I can make another artificer that is good at social skills.

I haves decided I am tired of SAD characters generally. I wish martial attacks with weapons were a composite of physical abilities maybe an average bonus of 2 or more.

Likewise, I would want spellcasters to also attack via a composite (that warlock woould not dump int or perhaps wisdom).

A few things would happen I think. First, there would be a little more diversity in skill proficiency and fighters would have a little boost. If dex and con were part of their attack composite, they would be able to fill those gaps in with attack stats.

Wizards et al would have to be careful. If they needed more than one decent “mental” stat in addition to chr, they might not also be able to afford a higher con and dex.

If the composite was an average of three bonuses, there would be more diversity. There would different ways that people could acquire the same composite.

Just random musing on the topic but would be happy to see something other than cookie cutter characters…

 

[Charlaquin]

If I had my druthers, Dex would add to hit with all weapon attacks and AC (depending on armor type), Strength would add to damage with all weapon attacks, Int would add to number of skill proficiencies and spells known/prepared for all casting classes, and Cha would add to all spell save DCs. Con and Wis could remain as-is, being major saving throw stats and adding to HP and some of the most important ability checks (those being perception and insight) respectively.

 

[aco175]

SAD is single attribute (score) dependent characters such as fighters (strength) and rogues (dexterity), and MAD is multiple attribute (score) dependent such as paladins (charisma and strength).

I think part of the answer is what one considers a good score to have. It it is a 20 in your stat at 4th level, or sooner if you roll for stats, then that means one thing. If 14 is a good stat to you, then you can have like 3 of them at 1st level and that means another thing.

To answer the opening post (OP), I think that limiting the max score to 16 instead of 20 would do the same thing and not need to make averages and math. This would free up more stat points to make other scores better since you would not need to get to the 20.

 

[Staffan]

I don't think averaging stats for one thing is The Way. Rather, making multiple things relevant for different but equally important things is. Or maybe have one primary thing and multiple secondary things – for example, many 4e classes were constructed with one primary stat and your choice of two or three secondary stats, which would each do different things. For example (and I'm writing this from memory so I might be off on the details), Rogues could be Ruffians or Scoundrels. Both would be primarily Dexterity-based (so your Rogue powers would usually use Dexterity for attacks and damage), but typical Ruffian powers would have a secondary effect based on Strength and typical Scoundrel powers would have theirs based on Charisma.

That, or do like The Troubleshooters and don't have attributes that contribute to other things. If you want to be good at fighting, just put points in the Melee or Ranged skills. Strength is another skill that lets you lift heavy things, break down doors, and things like that, but it doesn't really help with combat.

If you do want to have multiple stats to influence the stats you actually use, I'd either just add the lot of them and deal with higher totals, or do like 13th Age and use the middle of three stats.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

.

Again? Is this my first day? Double double post

 

[Warpiglet-7]

I don't think averaging stats for one thing is The Way. Rather, making multiple things relevant for different but equally important things is. Or maybe have one primary thing and multiple secondary things – for example, many 4e classes were constructed with one primary stat and your choice of two or three secondary stats, which would each do different things. For example (and I'm writing this from memory so I might be off on the details), Rogues could be Ruffians or Scoundrels. Both would be primarily Dexterity-based (so your Rogue powers would usually use Dexterity for attacks and damage), but typical Ruffian powers would have a secondary effect based on Strength and typical Scoundrel powers would have theirs based on Charisma.

That, or do like The Troubleshooters and don't have attributes that contribute to other things. If you want to be good at fighting, just put points in the Melee or Ranged skills. Strength is another skill that lets you lift heavy things, break down doors, and things like that, but it doesn't really help with combat.

If you do want to have multiple stats to influence the stats you actually use, I'd either just add the lot of them and deal with higher totals, or do like 13th Age and use the middle of three stats.

Well I am open to either approach. I would like to see more diversity in “builds” both as a
Player and sometimes DM!

And though I am not caught up in martial vs caster stuff, at all, I do think one of these approaches would level out his out a bit for those concerned.

 

[Distracted DM]

I really don't like how SAD 5e became once they started releasing new content for it... Hexblade, Toll the Dead, etc. But it wasn't the beginning, just a large extension on SAD.

Scaling cantrips supports it. Using your casting stat to hit with spells supports it.

Multiclassing is a big factor, but it's not the only factor. I don't really have a solution without massive overhauls though

 

[Warpiglet-7]

whoops double

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

While SAD is a definite thing, in that there are many classes with only one Primary ability score, secondary scores are also important.
Everyone wants DEX: Dex checks are one of the most important and common in the game, whether you're a heavy armour-wearing martial or a spellcaster. Having a decent Con score is also good, particularly for front-liners, but never bad for anyone.
Even Rogues, with their Primary score being Dex will often want decent scores in Wisdom, Intelligence and Charisma for skill usage.

Paladins are a strong enough class that even being MAD with non-Dex, non-Con primary scores they still do fine. Monks are the other MAD class, but it has plenty of issues outside of that as well.

 

[ezo]

Every class is already MAD, even if you don't realize it. Each class needs at least three decent to good scores:

Barbarian: Str, Dex, Con
Bard: Dex, Con, Cha
Cleric: Str, Con, Wis
Druid: Dex, Con, Wis
Fighter: Str, Dex, Con
Monk: Dex, Con, Wis
Paladin: Str, Con, Cha
Ranger: Str/Dex, Con, Wis
Rogue: Dex, Con, Int
Sorcerer: Dex, Con, Cha
Warlock: Dex, Con, Cha
Wizard: Dex, Con, Int

See the trend?

Every class uses either DEX or CON or both, the only real exception is the Dex-based Fighter, who doesn't need a high Str at all and can rely solely on high scores in DEX and CON, ironically enough.

Anyway, this is why if I make a PC with point-buy, I nearly always have something like 14,14,14,10,10,10 before racial ASIs.

Otherwise, I really don't like the idea of averaging modifiers, etc. but agree with much of @Charlaquin's post.