I Attack the Darkness... Seriously

[Iron Dog]

Taking into account the update from Wizards, for the players handbook to page 57 reguarding targets.

Add the following sentences to the end of the first paragraph: “Some powers include objects as targets. At the DM’s discretion, a power that targets a creature can also target an object, whether or not the power lists an object as a potential target.”

Would it then be feasible (DM’s discretion provided) to use a power targeted to a space/ground (or passing fly for that matter) that is within reach? Or would this cause to much abuse to the rules?

Say for example. A Warlord uses the power Wolf Pack Tactics. The Warlord allows an adjacent ally to shift then waves his sword about at nothing in particular.

 

[Staffan]

As a general case, I would say that if the power has an "Effect:" part, you could get that without making an actual attack. If what you want is a "Hit:" part, it would be abusive. So, for example, a Cleric couldn't use his Healing Strike to heal someone without actually attacking and hitting something. Using Divine Power just to get regeneration and a group AC bonus without hurting anyone, that's OK.

Similarly, a Fighter wouldn't be able to use Giant's Wake to make a pseudo-area attack by attacking the ground, but he would be able to use Iron Bulwark to just get an AC bonus.

 

[James McMurray]

What Staffan said, with the caveat that if it turns out to be too powerful in play it would stop being a general rule and become a case-by-case decision.

 

[Sir Brennen]

I think the "at the DM's discretion" part is really the answer. I take that as saying "Normally, no... but in certain cases the DM may allow it."

 

[GlaziusF]

Say for example. A Warlord uses the power Wolf Pack Tactics. The Warlord allows an adjacent ally to shift then waves his sword about at nothing in particular.

Spending a standard action to give an ally a shift? At-will? Sure, why not. A warlord can do move-for-move once an encounter anyway.

If it gets too problematic maybe require an attack roll from the warlord anyway and the ally only gets a shift if it "succeeds" (DM decides the number). The idea being that the warlord's got to work to produce the same distraction that halberding another dude produces.

 

[Ibn Khaldun]

Say for example. A Warlord uses the power Wolf Pack Tactics. The Warlord allows an adjacent ally to shift then waves his sword about at nothing in particular.

I would say no, at least in this example. I read the Warlord's powers as triggering off of his combat effectiveness, either, in the case of an Inspiring Warlord, because his successful attacks inspire his comrades or, in the case of the Tactical Warlord, because his successful attacks create tactical openings for his comrades. In either case, I don't see waving his sword in empty space as fulfilling that purpose.

 

[Iron Dog]

Official word from Wizards customer support.

The rules say nothing about allowing that, so it'd be entirely up to the DM's discretion to do or not. It's an odd sort of scenario, but does make sense. In the end though, it's his decision.

So in my game I'll allow it on a case by case bases, but as a general ruling:- only effects that don't require "Hit" effects, (or "Miss" for that matter) unless targeted at an actual object (if not a creature) provided object is susceptible, (or seen to be susceptible), to that type of attack. (i.e. no attk vs will against a statute, or thumbing the ground for, to it, ineffective damage).

In other words, no particular target = no damage, (0 x anything still equals 0), so if power's effect comes or follows from damage then no effect, otherwise, ok.