D&D 5E I feel like my world is drifting towards low magic, any tips?

[Lanliss]

No, it isn't a problem that I need tips to fix. I need tips on running low magic. Specifically, casting classes.

I don't want to cut the spell casting classes entirely, but how should I change them? Maybe half spell slot progression for all of them? Is that too little?

Maybe put them all on the Warlock track, with only 1 of each level for the higher level spells?

These are just spit balling ideas for now, but what do you all think? How have you handled converting 5E to a more low magic style?

Edit: another possible issue, what do I do to keep the spell casters balance with the martial classes? I am thinking, maybe, of lowering general enemy saves, so it would not penalize a caster as much to also have some dex or strength.

 

[Quickleaf]

I've achieved a low-magic feel with a few deceptively simple tweaks:

1. Either (a) no combat cantrips, or (b) adopt one of the many online house rules that limits cantrip use.

2. Make some kind of magical backlash house rule appropriate to your campaign world.

3. Play up the gritty shadowy feel of magic via material components, forbidden rituals, society's views of magic, etc.

4. Either place an overall level cap on the game (e.g. 8th) or a level limit on full spellcasting classes (i.e. bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, wizard).

 

[corwyn77]

I'd consider just not allowing more than half your levels be in a full casting class. Players could still have a lot of spells if they want but they would be pretty weak. It's a simple solution; no modifications to any classes required.

 

[Kabouter Games]

I think it depends on what you're going for. If you're going for that classic, gritty, Robert E Howard feel, magic is incredibly rare. Those who practice it are in positions of power in their societies. They very likely not adventurers. They're the ones summoning a giant snake to kill the hero(s).

If I was running such a campaign, I don't know that I'd have spellcasters as PCs at all. If I did, I really like your idea to make them all Warlocks. That limits their options, but makes those options pretty powerful. Maybe open up all spell lists, so that your casters can cast cure wounds or spiritual weapon.

I'd also make societal barriers for them, on the assumption that casters are very rare and therefore very special in the society in which they move. The folk in the tavern will wonder why a Fellow of the Esoteric Order of the Crimson Seal is sitting there drinking ale with muscled, beetle-browed warriors and lithe, witty rogues.

Quickleaf mentioned rituals. That idea intrigues me, too. If you make rituals the basic mechanism by which spells are cast, you make them more rare: Even a cure wounds spell takes ten minutes and all the attention of the caster to accomplish. Of course that severely reduces a caster's combat efficiency, but in a low-magic world, I should think that's simply something the player would have to suck up. I mean, okay, you can't cast ray of frost at will. But you're a Fellow of the Esoteric Order of the Crimson Seal! You were apprenticed to the king's grand vizier! Surely that's worth something, too. Hopefully the Fellow's player will be invested enough in your campaign world to buy in to that concept.

I highly recommend steeping yourself in the pulp literature from which the genre emerged. Even the various Conan large-format graphic novels will greatly inform your approach.

 

[Lanliss]

I think it depends on what you're going for. If you're going for that classic, gritty, Robert E Howard feel, magic is incredibly rare. Those who practice it are in positions of power in their societies. They very likely not adventurers. They're the ones summoning a giant snake to kill the hero(s).

If I was running such a campaign, I don't know that I'd have spellcasters as PCs at all. If I did, I really like your idea to make them all Warlocks. That limits their options, but makes those options pretty powerful. Maybe open up all spell lists, so that your casters can cast cure wounds or spiritual weapon.

I'd also make societal barriers for them, on the assumption that casters are very rare and therefore very special in the society in which they move. The folk in the tavern will wonder why a Fellow of the Esoteric Order of the Crimson Seal is sitting there drinking ale with muscled, beetle-browed warriors and lithe, witty rogues.

Quickleaf mentioned rituals. That idea intrigues me, too. If you make rituals the basic mechanism by which spells are cast, you make them more rare: Even a cure wounds spell takes ten minutes and all the attention of the caster to accomplish. Of course that severely reduces a caster's combat efficiency, but in a low-magic world, I should think that's simply something the player would have to suck up. I mean, okay, you can't cast ray of frost at will. But you're a Fellow of the Esoteric Order of the Crimson Seal! You were apprenticed to the king's grand vizier! Surely that's worth something, too. Hopefully the Fellow's player will be invested enough in your campaign world to buy in to that concept.

I highly recommend steeping yourself in the pulp literature from which the genre emerged. Even the various Conan large-format graphic novels will greatly inform your approach.

I don't think I will be going that low magic, dripping with flavor as it may be. It's just that none of my internal scenarios (just in my head, never touched paper) never have very "big" magic. Some fireballs, a circle of protection (I don't have my books, is the circle a higher level spell? Idk, it was some sort of circle that protected), and some light healing magic.

I like the idea to limit them to ten levels in full caster. Since I don't have my books, could someone tell me what the highest spell slot is at that level, for a full caster?

Not sure how to handle cantrips. I do not think I would cut them out entirely, but am not sure what number to limit their slots to..

 

[Jester David]

What makes a low magic world is less the casting of classes and more how people react to the magic. The best way is not to limit the character but the players. Discourage the use of magic, or present it as wonderous. The character uses a cantrip and everyone is amazed. Or wants to burn the character at the stake. There's superstitions around magic.

I also recommend using the carrot rather than the stick. Offer players who take a level in a non-casting class a boon. Perhaps they can survive four failed death saves or have an extra reroll each session.

 

[Lanliss]

What makes a low magic world is less the casting of classes and more how people react to the magic. The best way is not to limit the character but the players. Discourage the use of magic, or present it as wonderous. The character uses a cantrip and everyone is amazed. Or wants to burn the character at the stake. There's superstitions around magic.

I also recommend using the carrot rather than the stick. Offer players who take a level in a non-casting class a boon. Perhaps they can survive four failed death saves or have an extra reroll each session.

Hmm. I can agree with the carrot vs stick argument, but am not sure I want to give extra rewards just for taking non casting levels.

My current state (almost definitely not the final version)
All full casters except Warlock and Wild sorcerer are limited to X level (undecided).

Cantrips are limited to a number equal to 1st+2nd level spell slots per long rest (short rest for warlock, whose Cantrips are equal to total spell slots.)

Wild sorcerer will roll on the Wild surge table for every other spell cast. ( will probably customize my own wild surge table. Maybe.)

This is just my preliminary thoughts based on the input so far. Need to get home to add more solid numbers and thought to the matter.

 

[Tony Vargas]

No, it isn't a problem that I need tips to fix. I need tips on running low magic. Specifically, casting classes.

So, classes, then. ;P

I don't want to cut the spell casting classes entirely, but how should I change them? Maybe half spell slot progression for all of them? Is that too little?

Depends on how low you want magic to go and in what sense. If you want to go on using existing monsters at their CR and existing encounter guidelines and the 6-8 encounter day and not also re-jigger the classes that cast less, though, what you might go with is curtailing spells known, instead.
Slots represent a reasonable contribution for casters, so do cantrips, and, presumably out of combat, rituals. If you leave a caster all his slots, he's still got some serious capability. But, if you want to dial down the spotlight grabbing impact and versatility of magic, you could reduce the number and level of spells known, perhaps radically. It'd be good for the feel of a low-magic game where knowledge of magic is extremely rare, perhaps 'lost' from some high-magic earlier civilization, perhaps yet to be discovered.

Alternately, do away with slots across the board. Cantrips would be the contribution in combat, rituals out of combat (they'd still know spells, just not be able to use slots to cast them). Maybe the occasional item (perhaps consumable) would act as a slot, letting a caster toss out a 'real' combat spell. It could work for a setting where magic has fallen off a high in terms of power. The knowledge is still there, the power is hard to come by.

Maybe put them all on the Warlock track, with only 1 of each level for the higher level spells?

I've heard of Warlock-as-only-caster working well in Primeval Thule campaigns. Good if you want magic to be distrusted/dangerous.

I've also heard of putting other full casters on the Warlock progression.

How have you handled converting 5E to a more low magic style?

By default I run 5e low-level and low-magic-items, but have never bothered restricting casters. I did come up with a variant for 3e in which all caster classes became PrCs with a 13 in the appropriate knowledge as the preq, so in essence, casting was relegated to 10th+ level characters. If you're using the MCing rules, you could add some restrictions on when you can take caster classes, add some prerequisites, the level at which you gain magic and the maximum you can attain is cut down.

Edit: another possible issue, what do I do to keep the spell casters balance with the martial classes?

Wouldn't worry about it. As magic becomes rarer in the world, enemies are less likely to have it, less likely to be able to cope with it, and even the 'minor' magic you leave PC casters can be very high-impact. If you do away with cantrips, you might give adventuring casters some better weapon options. If you do away with rituals and reduce known spells, you might give them more opportunities to use esoteric knowledge to advance the non-combat side of the game. But, for the most part, low magic makes the magic that remains that much more interesting, so it's a tad self-balancing. Also, if you don't try to re-balance, you'll presumably get fewer dedicated casters in the party - tuh-dah, low magic. One time imbalance can be a positive: when it channels players away from campaign-inappropriate choices.

 

[Kabouter Games]

Alternately, do away with slots across the board. Cantrips would be the contribution in combat, rituals out of combat (they'd still know spells, just not be able to use slots to cast them).

This idea is very intriguing. At low levels, there is very little change between this and RAW. At higher levels, the power of magic is there - the Wizard can wish for things and travel the planes - but in combat isn't some kind of arcane Gatling gun. In combat the Wizard at 20th level is essentially the same Wizard as she was at first level.

Maybe the occasional item (perhaps consumable) would act as a slot, letting a caster toss out a 'real' combat spell.

I like this idea. This would work toward solving the combat-contribution weirdness, too - if you can't cast fireball, fire one out of a wand.

If you do away with cantrips, you might give adventuring casters some better weapon options.

I think you'd definitely need to do this. In the Conan canon, I remember several casters who accompany the hero on adventures are also skilled fighters. They need to at least be able to defend themselves.

you might give them more opportunities to use esoteric knowledge to advance the non-combat side of the game.

Precisely. They've got to be useful. If they're not useful as combat casters, instead cringing behind the meat shield, they've got to be able to figure out the riddles and mazes.

Another idea occurs to me about unpredictability...this thought is half-formed, so bear with me. Rather than restrict access to spells or curtailing spell slots, insert an element of uncertainty that makes casting "off the cuff" dangerous.

The premise is that one of the reasons magic is rare is that it's hard. It's intricate, it's complicated, and you can't reliably make sure you've got all the fiddly bits right when there are goblins screaming and shooting at you. Spells with the ritual tag go off fine if cast as rituals. Other spells, and ritual spells if cast under duress - any situation other than a carefully-prepared ritual is "duress" - have a chance of going wrong.

A rough mechanic is a DC to cast a spell without using the ritual. A variable DC which springs to mind is 15 plus the level of the spell minus the relevant ability modifier of the caster. This makes it tough to cast, say, disintegrate in combat, because the DC is 21 minus the ability modifier. If the caster is a Wizard with an Intelligence of 16, the final DC would be 18: 15+5-3=18. That's a pretty tough target.

Another DC-based method might be 10+spell level-modifier. To use the above example, the final DC would be 12. This gives a mechanic to simulate different levels of duress. The caster merely being out of her laboratory isn't under as much duress as when goblin arrows are whistling past her. If you make the mechanic to cast non-ritual spells as 10+level-modifier=DC, and then add in Disadvantage on the DC check roll if casting in combat, you add a mechanic for the stress of combat on a person who's used to manipulating magic under carefully-controlled conditions.

If the check fails, the magic goes "bang" somehow: Roll on the Wild Surge table.

Anyhow, that's my blue-sky.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I don't think I will be going that low magic, dripping with flavor as it may be. It's just that none of my internal scenarios (just in my head, never touched paper) never have very "big" magic. Some fireballs, a circle of protection (I don't have my books, is the circle a higher level spell? Idk, it was some sort of circle that protected), and some light healing magic.

Why not just run a low-level game?

Or, run the game using the extended rests variant, where 8 hrs is just a short rest and a long rest requires a day in comfortable conditions, but have a more normal (albeit reduced-threat) encounter schedule. If casters know that their spell slots will have to last them longer, they'll make more use of cantrips and less of the more spectacular high-end stuff.
Of course this also reduces use of non-caster's long-rest-based abilities as well, but it should stay more balanced.

If you're reducing cantrip use as well, you definitely need to give casters something effective to do in combat when they're not casting spells though.