D&D 5E I for one hope we don't get "clarification" on many things.

[Henrix]

We have good brains at the table who know the specific situation and campaign.
Let's use them.

Many of the things people want 'clarification' of are not even rules things.

But clear rules are required to make sense of what is a corner case and what is not.

What is a rule and what is a corner case?

Invisibility should not be judged by someone who does not know what the problem is at hand is.
guidelines are better.

I've seen, and been in, many situations, not least in 4th ed, but also in 3rd and other games, where the players (or GM feels he has to) enforce the rules despite it giving ridiculous situations.

 

[Juriel]

Ohhhh, fictional positioning means encounter! Now it makes more sense.

 

[Raith5]

I've seen, and been in, many situations, not least in 4th ed, but also in 3rd and other games, where the players (or GM feels he has to) enforce the rules despite it giving ridiculous situations.

I guess my point is that in game where fireballs, poison gas, etc can come out of my PCs fingers, what is ridiculous needs explanation. Just as I can imagine magic I can also easily imagine a high level rogue doing pretty amazing things.

I agree with you that rules need interpretation and DM has the capacity to do this and veto rules in some contexts. I still think that better rules is as important as empowering the DM - especially when it comes to something as commonplace as stealth.

 

[Haffrung]

We have good brains at the table who know the specific situation and campaign.
Let's use them.

Many of the things people want 'clarification' of are not even rules things.

Exactly. The rules for hiding and stealth in 5E are not at all ambiguous. What is left open to DM discretion is the context in which they can be used. Which is perfectly reasonable. Nailing down exactly when a PC is in a position to be able to hide, in a game that takes place in its participants' imagination with a near-infinite number of places and ways a imaginary character could try to hide, would take up blocks and blocks of text without nailing it down to the satisfaction of a rules lawyer. In the interests of simple practicality, it's better to make a judgement call.

 

[jadrax]

Ohhhh, fictional positioning means encounter! Now it makes more sense.

Nah, I am pretty sure it means where you put your books on the shelf.

 

[neonagash]

I'm actually boggled by this whole debate. The rules on stealth are crystal clear and anyone acting like they arent seem to be more looking for something to complain about than any real rules issue.

What light/concealment you and your opponent are in have rules. (like every other edition of D&D)

The DM decides what sort of light/concealment is available (just like every other edition of D&D)

Steal character rolls some dice (like every other edition of D&D)


Just where the hell is the problem? Is it where the DM is expected to lay out combat zones and know what lighting and cover goes where? Cause that is an issue with every TTRPG EVER.

 

[giggles]

(like every other edition of D&D)

Right!

1st ed.: 1.2 lbs.
2nd ed.: 2.2 lbs.
3rd. ed.: 2.5 lbs.
4th ed.: 2.6 lbs.
5th ed.: 2.7 lbs.

But some of 'em are 'rulings over rules'

Or is that just advertising...?

 

[Thaumaturge]

Right!

1st ed.: 1.2 lbs.
2nd ed.: 2.2 lbs.
3rd. ed.: 2.5 lbs.
4th ed.: 2.6 lbs.
5th ed.: 2.7 lbs.

But some of 'em are 'rulings over rules'

Or is that just advertising...?

Remind me, how many pages of 1st and 2nd edition were devoted to entirely role playing things like Backgrounds?

Thaumaturge.

 

[Mistwell]

Right!

1st ed.: 1.2 lbs.
2nd ed.: 2.2 lbs.
3rd. ed.: 2.5 lbs.
4th ed.: 2.6 lbs.
5th ed.: 2.7 lbs.

But some of 'em are 'rulings over rules'

Or is that just advertising...?

The resin to coat pages to make them shiny, paper pulp weight, and color ink quantity, binding materials, and materials relating to the cover and back cover and spine, all play more of a role than page count or word count in "book weight". And then of course margins, space between lines, quantity of artwork, font, etc. also play major roles in content quantity. It is ridiculous to claim weight is a measurement of quantity of content.

 

[Mistwell]

Actually, I think ICAO English is probably wholly insufficient for talking about RPGs.

If you don't understand, then you can't say they could be communicated better in plain English. "Fictional positioning" is not exactly fancy English.

It's jargon from an extreme minority of game designer analysis. Google it, and you will find it's being used on storygame boards, and by storygamers at some other boards, and not by others. And when you Google it, you will find even on those boards there is frequent confusion over what it means. Go ahead and ask an ordinary non-RPG person (and someone who does not have a masters or doctoral degree in a humanities topic) if they know what the phrase means, and I suspect you will get a blank stare.

Agency is more specialized, but it's a word that is commonly used in RPG discussion because it specifically specifies something that no other English words do.

No it's used is primarily storygame RPG discussion. General RPG talk doesn't use the word agency, unless they are talking about a group that has the title of agency, like S.H.I.E.L.D. agents are part of an agency. And of course other English words can be used instead of agency - wow what a lack of imagination to think just that jargon can be used.

Both of these words come from, on some level, Ron Edward's Glossary of Smug over at the Forge. They don't aid in general communication, and instead serve to exclude those not familiar with the jargon, so that conversations quickly become insular between a handful of people here.

What I think happened is some folks have been using this jargon for so long around like-minded people they've forgotten these words and phrases are part of jargon. That sort of thing happens in graduate schools and some professions (like marketing, law, medicine), but I figured it's nice to remind people they're using incomprehensible jargon if they seem to not remember anymore.

Now if the intent is to just discuss this between about 6 people here out of the thousands of people on this board...OK, have at it. Otherwise, you might want to explain your jargon every time you use it...because I suspect you're not communicating with a lot of potential readers of your posts.