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I guess Savage Species is out now...

Simplicity

Explorer
Katerek said:
Is there anything for a fan of Gnolls in this book?

There's little to nothing specific to gnolls; however, much of the book details how to figure out turning ANY monster into either a "monster class" or figuring out the ECL for the creature. I think a gnoll would be particularly easy to do based on some of the other examples in the book.

In fact, I could probably do a Gnoll class off the top of my head
(I don't have the book with me now, but this is what I think it might look like following the book guidelines:

Gnolls have +1 natural armor, a positive stat adjustment (Str +4, Con +2, Int -2, Cha -2), and 2 hit dice. Their level adjustment is either 1 or 2... I'm guessing 1. ECL = level adjustment + HD.

So, compare a 1st level fighter gnoll to a third level fighter and a fourth level fighter.

Code:
                            Gnoll Ftr1             Ftr3           Ftr4
Attacks                 +4                        +3             +4
Dmg                     +2                       +0             +0
Fort                      +6                      +3             +4
Ref                       +0                      +1             +1
Will                       +0                      +1             +1
HP avg                 17.5                   16.5          22


Note that a fourth level fighter also has 2 bonus feats at fourth level.

Looks to me that the Ftr4 is the better match. Thus, the ECL for the gnoll is going to be ECL +3. (2 for HD and 1 for bonuses)


Code:
Gnoll  "Monster Class"

-------
Level      HD            BAB       Fort   Ref   Will     Special Abilities
1            1d8           +0        +2     +0    +0       +2 Str, 
                                                          -2 Int, 
                                                          -2 Cha; 
                                                          Darkvision 60'
2            2d8           +1        +3     +0    +0       +2 Con, 
                                                          +1 natural AC
3            2d8           +1        +3     +0    +0       +2 Str


How's that?

(Looking back, I should have done the comparison between Ftr4 and Ftr5... Oh well... I still think Ftr4 is a good match... I wonder if the table in the back of the book agrees with me...).
 
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Re: SS in Detroit?

shadowlight said:
So has anyone found Savage Species in the Detroit area yet? I really want this book!!
It is not at the WotC store here in Dearborn, although they expect it later today or tomorrow.

Say, is there an art gallery up at the Wizards site yet? Now I really want to see these slaadi...
 

BOZ

Creature Cataloguer
Ratenef said:
As per Eric Noah the "Sample Monster Classes -- here dey are! -- Air Elemental, Large, Annis Hag, Aranea, Astral Deva, Athach,Avoral, Azer, Barghest, Belker, Centaur, Djinni, Drider, Earth Elemental, Large, Efreeti, Ettercap, Fire Elemental, Large, Fire Giant, Flamebrother Salamander, Flesh Golem, Frost Giant, Ghoul, Green Hag, Griffon, Grig, Hamatula, Harpy, Hound, Archon, Imp, Janni, Kyton, Lillend, Magmin, Medusa, Mind Flayer, Mummy, Nixie, Ogre, Ogre Mage, Pixie, Rakshasa, Satyr, Sea Hag, Shadow, Stone Giant, Succubus/Incubus, Treant, Triton, Troll, Trumpet Archon, Umber Hulk, Vrock, Water Elemental"


WHAT NO LIZARDFOLK!!!!!! Dem bastids!!!!!

well now that is an interesting list... not quite what i was expecting. still, i think it'll be worth of a look, possibly even a second look, and a consideration of buying...
 

Just out of curiosity what is the most ridiculous monster/class combo or stack of templates given in the book for a sample characters?

I'm sure I can think of even more ridiculous combos.
 

Felon

First Post
Ratenef said:
As per Eric Noah the "Sample Monster Classes -- here dey are! -- Air Elemental, Large, Annis Hag, Aranea, Astral Deva, Athach,Avoral, Azer, Barghest, Belker, Centaur, Djinni, Drider, Earth Elemental, Large, Efreeti, Ettercap, Fire Elemental, Large, Fire Giant, Flamebrother Salamander, Flesh Golem, Frost Giant, Ghoul, Green Hag, Griffon, Grig, Hamatula, Harpy, Hound, Archon, Imp, Janni, Kyton, Lillend, Magmin, Medusa, Mind Flayer, Mummy, Nixie, Ogre, Ogre Mage, Pixie, Rakshasa, Satyr, Sea Hag, Shadow, Stone Giant, Succubus/Incubus, Treant, Triton, Troll, Trumpet Archon, Umber Hulk, Vrock, Water Elemental"


WHAT NO LIZARDFOLK!!!!!! Dem bastids!!!!!

Assuming that list is all-inclusive, it's pretty odd IMO that they provide a class progression for undead (the Ghoul, Mummy, and Shadow), but no Vampire. Not only is it pretty safe to say that it would be one of the more sought-after monster classes, but it also lends itself very well to the whole concept behind monster classes, that a creature starts with a modest set of abilities and evolves into a more powerful creature over time.

It's not hard to envision. At the low-levels, the abilities are those of a Vampire Spawn (mostly physical) then as it matures into a full-fledged Vampire it starts to gain the supernatural powers like the ability to summon animals, assume a gaseous form, and dominate wills. Ultimately, the vamp gets the abilities presented in the Vampire Lord web enhancement on the WotC website.

Seems to make sense to me. Wonder why it wouldn't make the cut for SS?

And how does one advance as a flesh golem anyway? Neck-bolt upgrades? Perhaps I'm just the narrow-minded type, but I think the line for monster classes should be drawn at creatures that lack sentience. I can only suppose PC golems actually manage to get a brain (even if it is Abby Normal's).
 
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Simplicity

Explorer
Survey says... No. The table does not agree with me. I think the problem was that I left out the fact that the fighter might be a half-orc... And then the strength bonuses are offset a little bit.

A gnoll's STARTING ECL is 3, which means that the ECL for the gnoll race is +2.

It's the starting ECL which equals the HD plus the level advancement, but the starting ECL is the normal ECL plus that first level you're going to begin the game with.
 

Cion

First Post
Derren said:


And now, Amazon.de canceled the pre-orders for Savage Species and it seems they don´t plan to offer it anymore. :mad:

Does the EN World shop ship to Germany?

I know, I had it on preorder for 2 month... And I wrote them a very unfriendly mail. Those /%&$ did the same thing with D20 Modern.

Is there a good source for WotC-books in Europe?
 


edbonny

Explorer
Cion said:


I know, I had it on preorder for 2 month... And I wrote them a very unfriendly mail. Those /%&$ did the same thing with D20 Modern.

Is there a good source for WotC-books in Europe?

There is always E-bay...
 

Zander

Explorer
Simplicity said:
There's little to nothing specific to gnolls; however, much of the book details how to figure out turning ANY monster into either a "monster class" or figuring out the ECL for the creature...

No gnoll, goblin, lizardman, kobold, vampire or hill giant?? The whole idea of buying the book is to save the time and effort of converting these races. If it only provides guidelines on how to it, why bother? I'll save myself the money and figure them out without SS. :mad:
 

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