I hate Christmas

[Einan]

Wow. This thread is like wildfire.

I just wanted to add a small bit to the fire: Maybe your Dad gave you a really nice pen because he loves the act of collecting these pens and wanted to share a small part of his joy with you. An appropriate response would be to reach out to him by giving him something you enjoy, in order to share what you gain joy from with him. If you dig role-playing, get him a book about it. Then sit down and discuss what part of the hobby each of you enjoys gives you joy about it. It's an opportunity for a great father-son moment.

Trust me. You'll never regret those moments.

Einan

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

Either I will never use it, or it will get lost. I know this. He knows this. He knows that I do not want a pen like that, and have told him so, for this very reason.

So you're just going to give up? You're not even going to go for the hidden meaning, the symbolism in it? Why not? Try to keep track of it. Make it a focus of getting more organized.

Every time you see the pen, you'll be reminded of your father. The effort you put into keeping track of it will speak of respect for him and appreciation for his gift.

That is not a Christmas gift, and thus, is inapplicable to the situation.

Point of fact: It is applicable to caring for someone, which is applicable to the situation.

Without getting into religious angles, Christmas is about generosity for the most part. But giving a gift that the recipient doesn't want (and you know it isn't something they want) is not being generous. It is being selfish, and placing your own desires above theirs. How is that in the Christmas spirit?

Part of generosity on your side should be the willingness to accept a gift you didn't want. Generosity is more than just spending money, it is also being willing to be inconvienced by things you don't want or like.

A little generosity on your side, with your time at last, could mean the world to someone.

I notice that you focus mostly around the gifts with generosity, but what about the rest of Christmas? What about it being a time for being with family, for appreciating what you have, and are able to share with others, for reflecting on how good you have it?

Where's the Joy part of it?

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

Having a tree is enjoyable. Everything else you mention is tertiary at best.

Ummm, you are aware of the Meaning of Christmas?

Stores are usually closed on the 25th, but otherwise that would be fine by me.

I pray that Hastur show me that this is merely all a carefully contrived troll.

But...

::sigh::

Consider this my Christmas gift to you. It isn't on your list, becasue you don't realize that you need it, or that you do not have it.

Find out what the Spirit of Christmas is. Why it is more than just the materialistic gifts.

Rent It's a Wonderful Life, and watch it. REALLY watch it.
Watch It's a Charlie Brown Christmas.

Go to a homeless shelter and see what it is to have truly lost everything, then go home and look around you.

Watch your son's breathless excitement as he opens a present.

Go and get him something he has NEVER displayed any interest in, wrap it up, and give it to him, then allow him to open it right there.

Dude, find your Christmas spirit. It's out there, looking for you. I really do feel sorry for you that Christmas is little more than a tree and some material gifts.

 

[Storm Raven]

OK, the generosity is taking what you have, and sharing it with them.

In our modern society, that has translated into spending money on gifts. We have money, we share it by giving gifts.

That is generous.

Not if the gift is something you want, and not something that puts their desires above yours.

See, for a lot of us, we nearly bankrupt ourselves during Christmas. Life would probably be a lot cheaper without such things, and even more cheaper if we ditched birthday gifts, anniversary gifts, etc.

If you choose to overspend, that's not my problem. I didn't make you decide to get a gift.

But the point is, we share what we have by giving gifts. WE choose the gifts because WE are sharing our money, and our time, with the person who will get the gifts.

I wanted a Mustang or a Porche 911 for Christmas. My friends pooled some cash and bought me a Bavarian Crystal replica about two feet long made of hand carved/blown crystal. An excellent gift that I treasure far more than I would have ever treasured the car.

And the nature of that gift is that they got something that placed your desires above any their might have had. What if they decided, instead, to get you a replica of the mule Brighty, from the story Brighty of the Grand Canyon. Would it still be a great gift?

You say you don't like surprises, and in some ways, it feels like you've lost a lot of joy out of life. Seriously, man, working with the Feds can do that, it kind of sucks away everything to a monochrome.

I don't like surprises. Never have. I haven't lost that "joy". They were never enjoyable for me. People like different things. I don't like surprises. Deal with it. If you were a family member of mine, and actually cared about me, you'd remember this and plan accordingly. Getting me a "surprise" just shows me that you couldn't care less about me, or my preferences. Or worse yet, you are trying to "fix" me, because if you "surprise" me enough I will somehow discover that despite never liking them in my entire life, I really do now. I don't like peaches either, forcing peaches on me isn't going to make me like them.

Take some time to go out and enjoy the world. Take the kid to see the iced up lake, or the Christmas lights, or something like that.

I live too far south for iced up lakes, at least most Decembers. We go to see Christmas lights every year, but that has no bearing on whether giving gifts that don't account for the recipient's desires are actually given out of generosity.

 

[spatha]

No, it was not on the list. He was in 1st grade at the time, and got gifts on his own. Being too young for lists, and too young to actually spend the money on the gifts on my list, I appreciated his effort. But the members of my family are old enough to read my list, and can afford to get things from it without any trouble. My father is old enough to know what I want, and what I would never want, and does. My son was six at the time, and did not. That's the difference.

Your wife wasn't old enough to intercept the gift and say "no Daddy doesn't want that"?
Your wife couldn't have said "you know what little guy why don't we get this thing daddy wants and make it from you"? No she didn't because she new your son would get greater pleasure out of giving you what he wanted to give you. The same is true of your father. He gave you something he felt was apropriate for what ever reason and that should be good enough for you.
My sister with every present to my son has bought him something he hasn't wanted or would ever use even though she has called and talked to him and asked what he wants . Every time he gets a gift he thanks her anyways as that is the polite thing to do.

 

[Thanee]

Without getting into religious angles, Christmas is about generosity for the most part. But giving a gift that the recipient doesn't want (and you know it isn't something they want) is not being generous. It is being selfish, and placing your own desires above theirs. How is that in the Christmas spirit?

I somewhat agree with you here, altho possibly not for the same reasons.

Just buying something for the sole reason of buying something is certainly not the intent of what is called 'Christmas spirit', whether it is selected from a wish list or from the top 10 christmas gifts list at Wal-Mart. It's not really selfish, altho a point could be made, that not being willing to 'waste' time on thinking about a fitting gift is selfish in a way.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Storm Raven]

I just wanted to add a small bit to the fire: Maybe your Dad gave you a really nice pen because he loves the act of collecting these pens and wanted to share a small part of his joy with you. An appropriate response would be to reach out to him by giving him something you enjoy, in order to share what you gain joy from with him. If you dig role-playing, get him a book about it. Then sit down and discuss what part of the hobby each of you enjoys gives you joy about it. It's an opportunity for a great father-son moment.

He doesn't like role-playing. He never has, and never will. I know this. Hence, I do not buy him role playing materials. He even had a hint passed on to me today (through my mother). He wants the book What Stalin Knew.

Instead, he is going to be getting Beverley Hills Ninja, a movie I know he hates. Because it makes me feel good to get him something that I want to give him, and not something he actually wants.

 

[PirateMary]

Your wife wasn't old enough to intercept the gift and say "no Daddy doesn't want that"?
Your wife couldn't have said "you know what little guy why don't we get this thing daddy wants and make it from you"? No she didn't because she new your son would get greater pleasure out of giving you what he wanted to give you. The same is true of your father. He gave you something he felt was apropriate for what ever reason and that should be good enough for you.
My sister with every present to my son has bought him something he hasn't wanted or would ever use even though she has called and talked to him and asked what he wants . Every time he gets a gift he thanks her anyways as that is the polite thing to do.

There is no room for civil behavior in the world of the self-absorbed.
It's his way, or kiss his bum.

 

[Storm Raven]

Your wife wasn't old enough to intercept the gift and say "no Daddy doesn't want that"?

No, because he bought all his gifts at school through a school program.

Your wife couldn't have said "you know what little guy why don't we get this thing daddy wants and make it from you"? No she didn't because she new your son would get greater pleasure out of giving you what he wanted to give you. The same is true of your father. He gave you something he felt was apropriate for what ever reason and that should be good enough for you.

The kids also give each of us gifts based on what we wanted to get. They are learning that when you giver a gift, to think of the recipient, and not yourself.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

Not if the gift is something you want, and not something that puts their desires above yours.

Actually, they don't HAVE to share anything with you. From money, to time, to even a lousy phone call.

If you choose to overspend, that's not my problem. I didn't make you decide to get a gift.

OOOH! Look! You got me a strawman for Christmas! And here I thought you didn't care!

And the nature of that gift is that they got something that placed your desires above any their might have had. What if they decided, instead, to get you a replica of the mule Brighty, from the story Brighty of the Grand Canyon. Would it still be a great gift?

You don't get it, do you? It was a great gift, not because of WHAT it was, or how much it cost, but because they went and bought it, my FRIENDS cared enough to get me something beautiful that I couldn't afford. But all you see is that I desired a 911.

Fine, here's another little Christmas story for you...

I have a battered old dead timex watch on a sweaty stained band taped to my desk back. It was a Christmas gift. During Wintex, my friend took off his watch, wrapped it in an MRE Dehydrated Beef Patty box, and gave it to me.

I still have it.

I don't like surprises. Never have.

I don't either. In my line of work, suprise used to == screaming and bloodshed.

I haven't lost that "joy". They were never enjoyable for me. People like different things. I don't like surprises. Deal with it. If you were a family member of mine, and actually cared about me, you'd remember this and plan accordingly. Getting me a "surprise" just shows me that you couldn't care less about me, or my preferences. Or worse yet, you are trying to "fix" me, because if you "surprise" me enough I will somehow discover that despite never liking them in my entire life, I really do now. I don't like peaches either, forcing peaches on me isn't going to make me like them.

You really don't understand, do you?

The joy I keep referring to is the Joy of Christmas.

I live too far south for iced up lakes, at least most Decembers. We go to see Christmas lights every year, but that has no bearing on whether giving gifts that don't account for the recipient's desires are actually given out of generosity.

It has to do with the spirit of Christmas.