D&D General "I make a perception check."

[Blue]

Emphasis min. Yes, that. "What you can see" includes the result of a passive check.

In regards to the "whole range of the d20" @billd91 talked about, there is nothing wrong with walking into a room, looking around and upon perceiving there are dark corners or places to hide deciding to actively search for hidden enemies. That is an action, and it has consequences.

What this sounds like to me:

Character walks into a room. Passive perception is used.

Character takes an action to actively look around. DM ignores the action, undermining player agency.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

This is specifically what passive perception is for (in 5E at least).

not in all cases. Passive is just that... just walking by my passive of 13 is that... if I actively look around that is when I roll

 

[aco175]

I gather the main problem is the players saying "I roll Perception to search the room" over just "I search the room".

I still have my father throw dice as he rolls them and they scatter all over. We bought him a felt box to contain the dice, but several times per game the dice bounce out because of the way he throws them into the box. I do not think he is going to change and we just live with it.

 

[RobJN]

Its real simple. Perception covers "big picture" or "at-a-glance" impressions of the place/situation.

If the PC passes, then "Something [looks/feels] off." If they don't, then nothing appears out of the ordinary or jumps out at them in terms of demanding further attention.

 

[Agametorememberbooks]

The only problem I’ve seen with a high level of specificity with respect to examining things, a room, an environment and so on is that it can result in a never-ending series of dice rolls. If I make my players make a perception check for each object they search in a busy room, my players start feeling like they‘re in dice-rolling hell.

I prefer when a player is specific and says something like, “I want to check the desk for any traps, secret buttons, false-bottoms, etc.” Am I going to be overly pedantic because they didn‘t specifically state that they were looking for suspicious latches? No.

I‘m totally ok with my players entering a busy room and delcaring that they want to make perception and investigation checks. I just decide an arbitrary amount of time that passes while they rummage.

Depending on the amount of hours that have passed since the game session started, my players are more or less inclined to dig into really detailed accounts of their time. So I try to be flexible.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Multiple people and multiple skills involved.

what?

the questions was if history would provide info on what her religion was... my counter example was YES in real life a historian would be more likely to know her religion then a theologian. TBH both might, maybe neither does... so I can see an argument for "Okay just roll the better of your history or religon" but I can't see breaking it up between the two or forceing 2 rolls

 

[GMforPowergamers]

ve any of you ever grumbled at what appears to you to be busywork? Been annoyed when Page 2 of a form asks you to repeat information you already gave on Page 1? Couldn't understand why a customer service person asks for your phone number a second time? That's the moral equivalent.

that sums up my thoughts well... very nicely stated

 

[Charlaquin]

I hate hate hate that style of old school play.

I will even say I will no longer tolerate it. I played in a 3.5 campaign with a DM still in 1e mindset. (I was new to the group) we had to search a room he asked for details so I said "I go to check the closet" he has me roll search and that was my jam I was a rogue with maxed out search... I rolled super high like in the 30s and got "You find nothing" while another player checked the bed and another the desk... BUT the one that checked the desk then said "I go to the closest and take the bar off and look to see if it's hallow and if there is anything in it" and then he got a low double digit search check... and found a portable hole full of treasure. I was pissed a little that a 12 or so beat like a 35 but I tried to ignore it until the player said "I remember the DM did this a few campaigns ago...always check"
I then pointed out I was trying to use in game skill, and that my character was an expert in searching for hidden things but I was not... and the other player was useing out of game knowladge about his friend the DM... but i was told "D&D is as much a test of the player as it is the character"

I NEVER want to play a test of me instead of a test of what my character can do again

I would argue the DM in this example was doing a poor job of running the game in this style. If your declaration of “checking the closet” had no chance of success, he shouldn’t have asked you to make a check. Likewise, if the bar was hollow and there was something hidden in it, removing it and looking to see if it’s hollow and if there’s anything in it shouldn’t require a roll either, because there’s no way it could fail. If it were me, “checking the closet” would require an ability check because it’s not certain if you would find the hollow bar by doing that or not. “Checking the bar to see if it’s hollow” would result in success without a roll because the bar is indeed hollow. The latter would be a safer approach because checks can be failed and failure has consequences, but the former approach, while riskier, is still valid.

 

[Reynard]

What this sounds like to me:

Character walks into a room. Passive perception is used.

Character takes an action to actively look around. DM ignores the action, undermining player agency.

What could possibly have given you that impression based on what I wrote?

 

[Reynard]

I gather the main problem is the players saying "I roll Perception to search the room" over just "I search the room".

It's not even that. It is literally "I make a perception check" as the sole declaration of the player. THAT is what I take issue with. If the player includes ANY sort of in fiction action, we can at least begin the conversation about what the PC is doing and whether those actions will translate into the need for the player to make a roll. Characters don't make rolls.