I miss Dual Classing and the power of nostalgia

[prosfilaes]

It's just a game, not a simulation. "Dual-classing" versus "multi-classing" is just meant to further demonstrate the dominance of humanity over the non-humans, just like level limits.

I didn't see anyone here arguing that it should be a simulation. If it's just a game, then I think one of the problems is that most of us don't find demonstrating the dominance of humanity over the non-humans adds to our fun.

 

[SuStel]

I didn't see anyone here arguing that it should be a simulation.

No, but they are saying they don't like it because it "doesn't make sense."

If it's just a game, then I think one of the problems is that most of us don't find demonstrating the dominance of humanity over the non-humans adds to our fun.

Go complain to Gary, then, because that's how he sees it.

Now, look at a map of Conan's world, and tell me where the non-human empires are.

 

[Spatula]

Gary Gygax isn't a living god, he's a friendly and smart fellow who helped to create a hobby that we all enjoy. He has stupid ideas from time to time, the same as the rest of us. The dual-classing rules were one of them (the cavalier was another...).

And D&D is most certainly a simulation (as well as a game - the two are very compatible). It grew out of wargames, which are also simulations. "Simulation" doesn't mean a perfect, down-to-the-last-detail rendition - all simulations abstract away huge amounts of details in order to function smoothly.

 

[khyron1144]

Dual Classing

My first real attempt to use the old dual-classing rules was in the construction of an NPC for a 1e campaign. My world's version of the Grandfather of Assassins. A 15h level Assassin/ 29th level fighter/ 30th level Magic-User. This was less than five years ago, and it still strikes me now as adolescent DM powertripping.

I do think it is a cool idea.

 

[Warren Okuma]

Relax. Aside from my desire to exterminate my own species, I'm really a nice guy.

Cite.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Unless you're GM was house ruling a lot of things, dual class sucked. Not being able to use your old abilities until your new level passed your old level? Ugh.

 

[SuStel]

Gary Gygax isn't a living god

I must try to remember that nowhere is absurd hyperbole more prominent than on Internet discussion forums.

 

[khyron1144]

Gary Gygax isn't a living god, he's a friendly and smart fellow who helped to create a hobby that we all enjoy. He has stupid ideas from time to time, the same as the rest of us. The dual-classing rules were one of them (the cavalier was another...).

Okay, he's not a living god. Not sure I can go with that because I'm an animist, so me, you, Gygax, and my two cats, are all living gods to me. But using the term in the largely figurative sense that you probably meant it, I will concede.

But let me ask you this: Whose word would you take on a Conan-related dispute: Robert E. Howard's (the author who wrote the original Conan stories for Weird Tales way back when), Arnold Schwarzenegger's (the actor who portrayed Conan), or Roy Thomas's (the writer/ editor of what is considered to be the classic era of Marvel's Conan comics)?

Basically I think Gygax has that authorial level of authority in D&D realms.

 

[Ranger REG]

Basically I think Gygax has that authorial level of authority in D&D realms.

Not Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance or the original Blackmoor (that's D&D co-creator Dave Arneson's baby).

Just Greyhawk. But then there is the Carl Sargent's version of GH.

 

[prosfilaes]

Go complain to Gary, then, because that's how he sees it.

Living god or not, I don't care how Gary sees it; if it ain't fun, it ain't fun.

Now, look at a map of Conan's world, and tell me where the non-human empires are.

So? I don't need to drag those details into the rules, especially if it's not a simulation. Furthermore, I'm not playing in Conan's world, so that detail is less than interesting to me.