I need a rules guru to answer this Thri-Kreen Question

[Mystendanian]

Tonight I made a Thri-Kreen character based on the info from the Monster Manual II.

In short, i want to give him dual Gythkas. According to pg 196, "a thri-kreen who has the multiweapon fighting feat can wield two gythkas at once as double weapons because of its four arms." I have given this character the following:

MultiDexterity (the equivalent of Ambidexterity)
MultiWeapon Fighting (the equivalent of Two-Weapon Fighting)

Assuming I make a 8th lvl character (5 lvls of fighter, +3 adjustment for nonpsionic thri-kreen), that would give him a total b.a.b. (not including any mods) of +7. At this point, according to the PHB, pg 125, if a character has ambidexterity feat (multidexterity in this case) and 2 weapon fighting feat (multiweapon fighting in this case) and the off-hand weapon is light (which the Gythka is considered being a double weapon) then my total penalties would be: -2/-2 (for the first Gythka) and
-2/-2 (for the 2nd Gythka).

Is this correct so far?

Also, assume I take this feat:
Improved Multidexterity (the equivalent of Improved Ambidexterity, which further reduced the penalty by 2)

Then, am I correct in assuming that my overall penalties would equal -0 -0 -0 -0? So, for the 8th lvl character list above, would his attacks be +7/+7 and +7/+7?

On a slightly different topic, lets say I wanted this Thri-kreen to wield a Gythka in 2 hands and 2 shields in his 2 other hands. Would these shield bonuses stack and what sort of feats would this character need to be able to do that?

Thanks,

Myst

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

1 thing I'm not sure of.

When a creature has more than 2 hands, one hand is a primary hand and all the other hands are off-hands. Which means, for the thri-kreen, with 1 primary hand and 3 off-hands, that in order for this character not to have a penalty for NOT using a light weapon in his off-hand, he can't use a second double weapon.

I'll try to do the math.

No feats whatsoever, fighting with 4 longswords, the penalties would be:
-6/-10/-10/-10

Multidexterity, fighting with 4 longswords:
-6/-6/-6/-6

Multidexterity, Multi weapon fighting, still with 4 longswords:
-4/-4/-4/-4

Multidexterity, Multi weapon fighting, with 2 longswords and 2 shortswords:
-4/-4/-4/-4
(since not ALL your off-hand weapons are light weapons)

Multidexterity, Multi weapon fighting, with 1 longsword and 3 short swords:
-2/-2/-2/-2

Multidexterity, Multi weapon fighting, with 2 gythkas:
-4/-4/-4/-4
(since not ALL your off-hand weapons are light weapons)

Multidexterity, Multi weapon fighting, with 1 gythka and 2 shortswords:
-2/-2/-2/-2


Can't help you with the shield part though.

AR

 

[MerakSpielman]

On the shield question, I think it is reasonable to limit creature to using one shield at a time.

Maybe you could create a special "Thri-Kreen Shield" that grants a +4 shield bonus to AC and requires two hands (any combination of 2 hands) to use properly. This sounds like a perfectly reasonable thing for such a race to invent. To counteract the "why doesn't every Thri-Kreen have one of these" arguement, you might have to institute a penalty, such as the shield weighing enough to slow them down a bit.

 

[Spatula]

In order for a thri-kreen to get the more generous multi-weapon fighting penalties, *all* of its off-hand weapons must be light. And a gythka isn't a light weapon. Only the extra 'end' of a double weapon is considered to be light for two-weapon (or multi-weapon) fighting purposes. The other end is not. So you'd get -4 to your attacks instead of -2.

Normally, you treat a double weapon as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.

So, a thri-kreen with two gythkas looks like this:
Primary hand: one-handed weapon
off-hand #1: light weapon
off-hand #2: one-handed weapon
off-hand #3: light weapon

Also note that Savage Species changed the gythka from doing 2d6/2d6 damage to 1d8/1d8.

As far as using two shields goes, like bonuses don't stack unless stated otherwise.

Also, assume I take this feat:
Improved Multidexterity (the equivalent of Improved Ambidexterity, which further reduced the penalty by 2)

Where is Improved Ambidexterity from?

 

[Mystendanian]

Improved Ambidexterity

Improved Ambidexterity is from The Netbook of Feats. The other one (Improved Multidexterity) I just made up as a equivalent to Improved Ambidex.

So, Spatula, consider the example I gave (an 8th ECL Thri-kreen fighter). What would his final attacks be then assuming only his b.a.b. of +7?

Thanks, btw. And damnit! I thought 2d6 seemed a little high, but who was I to argue w/ the MM2? Now Savage Species has gone and rained on that little parade!

Myst

 

[Spatula]

Improved Ambidexterity is from The Netbook of Feats. The other one (Improved Multidexterity) I just made up as a equivalent to Improved Ambidex.

So, Spatula, consider the example I gave (an 8th ECL Thri-kreen fighter). What would his final attacks be then assuming only his b.a.b. of +7?

-4 on all attacks, before you add in Improved Multidexterity. Assuming the feat gives you a further +2 when fighting with more than one weapon, then that would put the character at -2 to all attacks after the feat. If the feat instead removes all multi-weapon fighting penalties, I would say it's overpowered, but that would put you at -0 to all attacks.

Thanks, btw. And damnit! I thought 2d6 seemed a little high, but who was I to argue w/ the MM2? Now Savage Species has gone and rained on that little parade!

However, a gythka that does d8/d8 with x2 on a crit is inferior to other exotic double weapons like the double axe or sword, so you may want to talk to your DM about beefing up the crit or something. Then again, as a thri-kreen fighter you get proficiency in the gythka for free, as opposed to having to spend a feat on it, so perhaps you have nothing to complain about. A double weapon that does 2d6/2d6 is definitely over the top.