I scoff at Magic Items!

[Staffan]

Where is the canon you're referring to? We play that the DC is whatever the creator's DC is for the spell(s) in question. I mean, if a 20th level wizard creates a staff of fireballs as a 10th level spell (the max damage for that spell), then that staff is going to be throwing fireballs that deal 10d6 points of damage, Reflex for 1/2.

I don't have my DMG in front of me, but the default DC for magic items is the minimum possible to cast the spell - 10 + spell level + minimum stat (which works out to 10+spell level*1.5 rounded down). The caster level is a different thing, that can be set as the creator chooses. The 20th level wizard in your example will be making a staff that tosses 10d6 fireballs with a save DC of 14 (spell level 3, min stat 13 = +1).

 

[kingpaul]

I don't have my DMG in front of me, but the default DC for magic items is the minimum possible to cast the spell - 10 + spell level + minimum stat (which works out to 10+spell level*1.5 rounded down). The caster level is a different thing, that can be set as the creator chooses. The 20th level wizard in your example will be making a staff that tosses 10d6 fireballs with a save DC of 14 (spell level 3, min stat 13 = +1).

Silly Paul, didn't refer to the SRD's section on magic items.

SAVING THROWS AGAINST MAGIC ITEM POWERS
Magic items produce spells or spell-like effects. For a saving throw against a spell or spell-like effect from a magic item, the DC is always 10 + the level of the spell or effect + the ability bonus of the minimum ability score needed to cast that level of spell. Another way to figure this number is to multiply the spell’s level by 1.5 and add 10 to the result.
Most item descriptions give saving throw DCs for various effects, particularly when the effect has no exact spell equivalent (making its level otherwise difficult to determine quickly).

 

[herald]

Quoted from the SRD:

MAGIC ITEMS:

Caster Level:

The power of the item (just as a spell’s caster level measures its power). The caster level determines the item’s saving throw bonus, as well as range or other level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item (if variable). It also determines the level that must be contended with should the item come under the effect of a dispel magic spell or similar situation.
For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of the item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself. In this case, the creator’s caster level must be as high as the item’s caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator’s level).

 

[Staffan]

Caster level has nothing to do with save DC. The only way I know of in the core rules to make a wand of fireballs with a higher DC than 14 is to make a wand of heightened fireballs, which would give you a DC of 16. It would cost 33% more though, for the same amount of damage.

 

[Aloïsius]

Unless of course the players all have that feat too (who wouldn't? )

Players that are hunting for PrC or other feat combos, maybe ?

None of my spellcasting PCs would take this feat; they all have much other priorities.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Caster level has nothing to do with save DC. The only way I know of in the core rules to make a wand of fireballs with a higher DC than 14 is to make a wand of heightened fireballs, which would give you a DC of 16. It would cost 33% more though, for the same amount of damage.

Here's the really interesting question: do you use 1.5*spell level or min stat modifier + spell level? Normally, they're the same, but a fireball Hightened to 9th level only takes Int 13...

 

[hong]

Here's the really interesting question: do you use 1.5*spell level or min stat modifier + spell level? Normally, they're the same, but a fireball Hightened to 9th level only takes Int 13...

? A Heightened 9th level fireball _is_ a 9th level spell, and takes Int 19 to cast.

 

[Thistleknot]

There's an answer for this in the ELH....

On page 114 in the Epic Level Handbook, they have the Item Creation Feat Enhance Item.

This lets people use their key ability modifier for crafting items with saving throws. It only applies to one Item Creation feat at a time, but it can be taken multiple times.

Hope that helps. =)

 

[kenjib]

? A Heightened 9th level fireball _is_ a 9th level spell, and takes Int 19 to cast.

Hello Hong,

This is incorrect. From the D&D FAQ:

Say an 11th-level wizard has an Intelligence of 15. Can the wizard prepare a teleport spell (5th-level spell) enhanced with the Silent Spell metamagic feat and thus use a 6th-level spell slot that the character (thanks to low Intelligence) could not use to prepare a 6th-level spell?
Using a metamagic feat makes the spell occupy a spell slot of higher level, but it does not actually change the spell’s level, except for Heighten Spell, which does increase the spell’s level. So long as the wizard in question has enough Intelligence to cast the spell at its actual level (15 for the 5th-level teleport spell) the character can cast the metamagic spell. Note that the character doesn’t have to use metamagic to use the 6th-level spell slot; the character can simply prepare any lower level spell in the slot you take the feat.

 

[The Halfling]

Um, kenjib....

You actually proved hong correct with that quote from the FAQ....

Heighten Spell is stated as an exception to this ruling. It does increase the spell level, thus requiring the increase in Int/Wis/Chr needed to cast the spell

"...it does not actually change the spell’s level, except for Heighten Spell , which does increase the spell’s level. So long as the wizard in question has enough Intelligence to cast the spell at its actual level (15 for the 5th-level teleport spell) the character can cast the metamagic spell."