I See...No I Don't (Vision Question)

[Demmero]

I've talked myself in circles on this one and now don't know what to think any more. Here's the situation:

There's an unlit room in a dungeon--total darkness. The tieflings lying in wait have 60-ft. darkvision, as do the party's dwarf and half-orc. The party's two humans have magic items that give them a weak version of a Light spell.

OK, now the tieflings use their spell-like ability to create a Darkness effect. That overpowers the humans' Light effects.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is does Darkness (which causes an object to radiate shadowy illumination) actually brighten an area that's already in total natural darkness?

Any help given would be appreciated.

 

[Jhulae]

By a literal reading of the rules, yes. Shadowy Illumination is brighter than complete darkness (or No Illumination).

 

[pressedcat]

I'd argue darkness doesn't create light as it actually counters light spells (of equal/lower levels), though a literal reading actually implies illumination (see srd).
In the situation you describe the way i'd handle it is that if the darkness spell is of higher or equal level to the ongoing light spells, it will suppress them, leaving the room in total darkness. Those with darkvision will be effected by the darkness spell as spell decription states (so will have concealment)

SRD:This spell causes an object to radiate shadowy illumination out to a 20-foot radius. All creatures in the area gain concealment (20% miss chance). Even creatures that can normally see in such conditions (such as with darkvision or low-light vision) have the miss chance in an area shrouded in magical darkness.

Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) are incapable of brightening the area, as are light spells of lower level. Higher level light spells are not affected by darkness.

If darkness is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a lightproof covering, the spell’s effect is blocked until the covering is removed.

Darkness counters or dispels any light spell of equal or lower spell level.

 

[Vorput]

It's a stupid rule, but yes- It's a rule.

Technically, you can cast darkness as a less-effective light spell.

::rolls eyes::

 

[frankthedm]

Obscuring mist makes a better way to hide.

 

[Rhun]

Despite what the RAW actually says, sometimes (IMHO, of course) common sense must be used to dictate the outcome of certain actions.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Wow, do people actually not houserule Darkness back to the non-lame version from every edition before 3.5? I was under the impression that this particular revision was nigh-universally ignored.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Wow, do people actually not houserule Darkness back to the non-lame version from every edition before 3.5? I was under the impression that this particular revision was nigh-universally ignored.

If by "non-lame version" you mean when the spell created total darkness rather than just shadows...yes, some of us actually prefer the 3.5 version.

I do not, however, believe that the 3.5 authors intended for darkness to (dimly) illuminate an area of non-magical darkness, though that is indisputably the RAW. My own personal house-rule is that darkness simply prevents the area from being brightened above "shadowy illumination" by anything less than an equal-level [Light] effect.

 

[JustinA]

If by "non-lame version" you mean when the spell created total darkness rather than just shadows...yes, some of us actually prefer the 3.5 version.

Okay, I'll bite: Why?

I understand the argument that running combat in darkness is difficult if you're grid-addicted and incapable of raising a firewall between in-character and out-of-character knowledge. But simply revising the darkness spells doesn't remove the #1 cause of darkness in the world: An absence of light.

Personally, I find the new spells to be possibly the stupidest things I have ever seen:

(1) You've got the idiocy that someone wrote a rule which literally allows a darkness spell to create light in certain circumstances. Followed by the idiocy of no one at WotC noticing what they'd done.

(2) Then you've got the idiocy of a 3rd level spell (deeper darkness) being unable to cancel out the illumination of a common candle... something that a prestidigitation cantrip can do (by blowing the candle out).

(3) All of this idiocy is, AFAICT, thinly "justified" by claiming that running combat in darkness is too difficult... but then the designers leave intact the ability for the darkness spells to negate magical illumination. Which, IME, is the source of all or most illumination for groups from about 3rd level on. So the revision doesn't meaningfully solve the problem it was supposed to solve (since it still results in holding combats in complete darkness more often than not).

Justin Alexander
http://www.thealexandrian.net

 

[frankthedm]

Okay, I'll bite: Why?

If it was old school darkness, Having a darkness spell and true seeing or a devil's See in Darkness takes the Dex bonus from just about every foe and gives you full concealment. Every fight.

True sight ain't cheap, but the resources are worth it.

I tried making a version of a darkness spell that gives pich blackness, without letting it get out of hand.

Obscuring Darkness
Evocation [Darkness]
Level: Brd 2, Clr 2, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Object touched
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell causes an object to radiate pitch darkness out to a 20-foot radius. This darkness obscures all sight, including darkvision. All creatures in the area gain total concealment (50% miss chance).

Those who possess normal lights brighter than a candle (torches, lanterns, light spells of lower level and so forth) have to their own square illuminated, and the adjacent squares have shadowy illumination. Thus a creature 5 feet away from a light source has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker cannot use sight to locate the target). A light as bright as a candle only provides shadowy illumination in the possessor’s square.

If a creature with a light source has more than one square as its face [large or bigger], it chooses one square to be the fully illuminated square {a candle would just provide the single shadowy square]. If the creature is a light source, however, then all of its squares are illuminated, with all adjacent squares receiving shadowy illumination.

Even creatures that can normally see in such conditions (such as with darkvision or low-light vision) have the miss chance in this area shrouded in magical darkness.

Higher level light spells are not affected by darkness.

If darkness is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a lightproof covering, the spell’s effect is blocked until the covering is removed.

Darkness counters any light spell of equal or lower spell level. Darkness dispels any light spell of equal or lower spell level it is cast upon.

Arcane Material Component
A bit of bat fur and either a drop of pitch or a piece of coal.

A desperate minor demon uses its Obscuring Darkness spell like ability to confound the fire elemental and the Annis hag sorcerer who summoned it.