I see Skip's redefined Polymorph again...

[allenw]

http://www.rpg-network.de/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=6&mode=&order=0&thold=0

Polymorphing is much more clear in 3.5, but some illustrative examples would be appreciated (maybe in a future installment of Rules of the Game?). But I'm still confused on one thing: do your Hit Points change when polymorphed into a creature with a higher or lower Con than you?

A rules of the Game on Polymorphing is in the works (edited and ready to go live, but I don’t know when). When your Con increases, immediately add hit points for the extra Con. For example you’re 9th level and your Con goes up 2 points, you gain 9 hit points. Do the same thing in reverse when your Con decreases, immediately deduct hit points for the lost Con. For example you’re 9th level and your Con drops up 2 points, you lose 9 hit points. This makes polymorphing pretty dangerous sometimes. If you assume a form with a great Con and you get damaged, you could die when you revert to your own form. (Now wizards know how it feels to be a barbarian.)

 

[mikebr99]

That's how I've always played it... Druids ROCK!





Mike

 

[DarkMaster]

That's how I've always played it... Druids ROCK!





Mike

Same here

 

[youspoonybard]

With their enhanced Wild Shape options, a core Natural Spell, and equipment remaining functional (!!!), they didn't even need this.

Man, I wish I could play a game (instead of DMing...)

 

[mikebr99]

Man, I wish I could play a game (instead of DMing...)

ROTFL...

You have my sympathy.


Mike

 

[Aaron2]

http://www.rpg-network.de/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=6&mode=&order=0&thold=0

That's the way we've always played.


Aaron

 

[Nail]

We do not play it this way.

We follow the rules instead.

 

[mikebr99]

We do not play it this way.

We follow the rules instead.

heh... I know you're trolling Nail... but I'll take the bait.


This IS how the rules are...

Polymorph: <snip> This spell functions like alter self, <snip>
<snip> The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form <snip>

Alter self: <snip> You retain your own ability scores. <snip>

Mike

 

[jgsugden]

There are logical and reasonably supported arguments for both sides based upon the books.

The balance issues favor not allowing hit points to change. An empowered false life spell can get you 30 hit points. Polymorph can get you far more than that (if you allow hp to change with a con change), as well as a lot of other abilities.

Play as you wish, but polymorph and wildshape are *too strong* when hit points change. From a role playing perspective, it also neuters the differences between different PCs. Anything that promotes differences between wildshaped druids is a plus in my book.

If you prefer the 'hp change' rule for your PC because it makes your PC tougher, rememebr that a good DM will account for the change. This will lead to tougher foes and a greater chance fo death when your wildshape fails you.

Skip's advice violates the DMG errata. He doesn't see it that way, but it is clear to many of us that he is off base - sticking to what he thought the rule would be instead of refreshing his perspective when the rule was clarified in a direction that he did not anticipate.

 

[Iku Rex]

heh... I know you're trolling Nail... but I'll take the bait.

I'm a sucker for trolls.

This IS how the rules are...

Polymorph: <snip> This spell functions like alter self, <snip>

Alter self:"Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same."

<snip> The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form <snip>

Alter self: <snip> You retain your own ability scores. <snip>

Mike

Ok - I see where this is going. Even though polymorph doesn't contradict alter self with regards to hit points remaining the same, and even though the spells are meant to be read together, and even though we're left with the exact same rule as in 3.0, that particular part of the sentence in alter self I quoted doesn't apply to polymorph.

Good thing the DMG entry for polymorph (recently updated to 3.5 in the DMG errata) repeats that "[polymorphed creatures] retain their original class and level, Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma, hit points, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and alignment." (Note that it's the same sentence as in alter self, slightly rephrased.)

And the alternate form ability from the MM, which works "much like the plymorph spell, except that the creature is limited to the forms specified, and does not regain any hit points for changing its form," specifies that "the creature retains its hit points and save bonuses, although its save modifiers may change due to a change in ability scores."

And Compete Warrior (by Andy Collins, David Noonan and Ed Stark) lists the changed game stats for a polymorphed (wild shaped) character on page 65. Hit points have been left out - they don't change despite a changed Con modifier.