I think I'm stalling out my own game

[BeauNiddle]

If you want an instant Ally have the old flame show up at their home weeping. Shes just overheard a conversation between BBEG leiutenants about 'Plot Thread X' which she disagrees with and she remembered her old friend / lover / other was now an adventurer and whats him to help.

Clear instant leadership. Simple instructions. Instant trustworthy ally (i.e. she can't betray the group during the mission). The party knows what to do for the next few sessions.

Once that adventure / side trek is over then they have extra thread complications about how to handle the old flame - do they send her back in undercover to get more info or do they protect her as the BBEG tries to get her back?

An important McGuffin they can hide in a deep cave somewhere whilst a living breathing person is much harder to deal with, especially if they have thier own view on what should be happening.

Just a thought

 

[werk]

Well, the first thing that I think I would do is make the BBEG the party's enemy. Maybe have him find the artifact they were hiding, he calls them in, tells them how angry he is and how he feels betrayed, then he either attacks them outright (and withdraws) or he drops them into a particularly nasty adventure. "Lock them in the neverending dungeon of deadly dooms!" or "You've done so well, please deliver this message to the Lady of Pain, it is imperative that you speak to her directly...I'll transport you there..."

I think the multiptude of plot hooks is good, for exposition, now knock them on their heels and give them some time to grow in power. After they survive whatever BBEG does to them, have them find the BBGG and start working toward the good artifacts. Maybe have the BBGG hunt them down because they 'delivered' the artifact to the BBEG, then they'll need to decide whether to fight it out (taking the role of bad guys) or communicate and gain an ally.

That should push them one way or the other, then they are just running down hill.

 

[Enkhidu]

Tried this...unfortunately didn't work. The PC whose father is implicated in the BBEG's scheme is set to be executed in one month's time as a traitor to the crown. The plot is disintegrating because no one can agree on what is the best course of action in combating the charges against the PCs father. He is being held by a LN(G) nation, and the character wants to stay within the boundaries of the law so that his father (a noble) will retain his lands and title once they exonerate him.

So far so good on this one - setting an execution date lights a fire under the PCs feet. However, it's probably time to up the ante - stage an assassination attempt on the father while in he's imprisoned, but let it fail. Make sure that Pop gets a good look at his attackers, and can identify something about them that will lead the PCs directly to either the people that set him up in the first place (if you've decided he's innocent), or to the BEBG's minions (if Pop was actually involved in the scheme). Either way, you get to have a showdown that can result in the PCs resolving the plot thread (by either proving Pop's innocent, or by confirming his guilt).

I did just send in an agent of the BBEG who slaughtered one of the PCs outright (save a revivify by the cleric, as my campaign doesn't allow standard resurrection spells) as a warning that their course of action was a bad one. I think they got the message about that particular course of action being a bad one in the BBEG's eyes... however, I don't necessarily want them NOT to pursue it.

The big question is "how did the PCs react to the attack after they won?" In this case, the idea should be to let the PC's know that the trail they were heading down was a "getting warmer" type of trail. PC's being PCs, it seems likely that encountering resistance was a good sign that they were on the right track. Normally, this results in the PCs pushing down that trail even harder, but your players might not have that sort of mentality.

My problem is that I'm walking a very thin line of trying to force the PCs to act without necessarily closing off any avenues to them by railroading them in a particular direction. My initial idea is to show them just how far the plot goes, because they don't truly understand just how long ago the BBEG set this plan in motion, and I don't think they understand why they are the ones involved. This plot began before most of them were born, and actually involved some of their fathers and forefathers. I also don't think they understand just how far ahead of them the BBEG is, and how much he knows that they don't think he knows.

How much can I get away with revealing, in the esteemed opinions of you ENWorlders, without totally defeating the players/characters and/or killing my game which is going very well other than this slow-down in decision making?

If the BEBG's plot spans generations then it's probably time to spill a few of the beans. Just enough to get the PCs moving with purpose again. The next time the PCs hit a library, have one of them find passages pertinent to the plot - maybe the BEBG tried this once before 224 years ago and was thwarted, and now there's a little known epic poem about it. Or maybe - and this would also fill the "the party needs allies" void - maybe the PCs aren't the only ones with a stake in stopping the BEBG. Maybe there's a generation spanning society dedicated to keeping tabs on the PCs because their lines seem to favor so prominently in the BEBG's plans.

 

[Piratecat]

Do you reward action or punish it? When a DM makes every choice equally hard and provides nasty consequences to action, players become paralyzed by indecision. When it's safer and more fun to do nothing than something - anything! - the players will spend their time debating instead of doing.

My reward to this is to take a lesson from dog training and reward the action you want to see more of. Come into a game and say "hey, if you choose a plan in ten minutes, I won't punish you for not having thoroughly evaluated every option. Let's increase the pace, and play fast and fun." See what they do. you may have to throttle back on sub-plots to keep your promise, but I think it'll be absolutely worth it.

Another possibility is to introduce a mysterious prophet who can spout suggestions that focuses the group. Sure, it's steering, but it isn't railroading unless they HAVE to then follow that plotline.

 

[Arnwyn]

HELP?!

Simply put - reduce their options and at the same time provide them with guidance.

I know you said you are "trying to force the PCs to act without necessarily closing off any avenues to them by railroading them in a particular direction", but clearly that's not working for you.

At this point, the players need some clear guidance as to what the best course of action for them is, so the game can continue on smoothly.

 

[Tamlyn]

An excellent resource is Sagiro's story hour here. Try the PDFs. He's put his players in these types of situations and he's handled them, IMO, masterfully. Lots of options and vague plot points, but also a handful of trusted allies who can guide. Even when lots of options are available a patron or advisor was telling them of the top two priorities at the time.

P-Kitty and Enk are both right. If the BBEG's plans are this big of a deal with so many on his side, there are bound to be others equally aware of the danger and strongly opposed to said evil dangerousness. Find a way to hook them up.

 

[Piratecat]

As a player in Sagiro's game, I'll agree with this. We as players try to be proactive, though; all of us hate sitting around and procrastinating, so we discuss and select strategy pretty efficiently at this point. Sagiro helps a ton by giving us information that helps guide us.

 

[Mordane76]

Maybe there's a generation spanning society dedicated to keeping tabs on the PCs because their lines seem to favor so prominently in the BEBG's plans.

Did this... this is one of the NPCs that the PCs don't necessarily know where his allegiances lie, but they also have some reasons to distrust him. I think he's going to figure into exposing some the depth of the plot as well - he's been in cognito for a few game weeks because the PCs ditched him, but I think it's time he caught up with them.

Do you reward action or punish it? When a DM makes every choice equally hard and provides nasty consequences to action, players become paralyzed by indecision. When it's safer and more fun to do nothing than something - anything! - the players will spend their time debating instead of doing.

My reward to this is to take a lesson from dog training and reward the action you want to see more of. Come into a game and say "hey, if you choose a plan in ten minutes, I won't punish you for not having thoroughly evaluated every option. Let's increase the pace, and play fast and fun." See what they do. you may have to throttle back on sub-plots to keep your promise, but I think it'll be absolutely worth it.

I try to reward action as much as possible. I thought sending out the pain squad when they went on the boat recently and one of the PCs was mangled would tell them they were going in the right direction, but it seems to have redirected their ire at the pain squad for the moment, which is at least action... Possibly a good thing.

Also, many of their plans are brilliant, especially when they get moving on-the-fly. I just need to figure out how to keep them moving... and I'm getting some good ideas here.

An excellent resource is Sagiro's story

I'll have to look into this when I get a chance this weekend or on my next days off.

 

[GAAAHHH]

Is there any chance the BBEG could find out where the artifact is? Remember that he has many people working for him. Including spies and thieves.

You also said that some of the PC's were sympathetic to his cause. Perhaps one of them could be contacted (in private) and maybe convinced to reveal the location.

A thank you note from the BBEG for keeping his artifact safe, but that their services will no longer be required, might spur them into action.

 

[Wasteland Knight]

I try to reward action as much as possible. I thought sending out the pain squad when they went on the boat recently and one of the PCs was mangled would tell them they were going in the right direction, but it seems to have redirected their ire at the pain squad for the moment, which is at least action... Possibly a good thing.

I'd say that most people wouldn't view being attacked by a "pain squad" and having a PC mangled as any sort of reward. While your intention may have been to send a message your party was going in the right direction, in fact it sounds like they've come to exactly the opposite conclusion. Revenge is a powerful motivator, and it sounds like revenge is sending them after their attackers.

When you give your players a reward, it needs to be a carrot not another stick. The carrot can be something as simple as money or magic items, or something less tangible but equally useful like allies or important information.