Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
I think so, yeah. This is why there are other games, other versions of D&D, even other versions of 5e.It’s easier to imagine the end of the game than the end of caster supremacy?
I think so, yeah. This is why there are other games, other versions of D&D, even other versions of 5e.It’s easier to imagine the end of the game than the end of caster supremacy?
Fighter is a full PC class already, and the class is thematically intended not to do reality-bending things. That is not what it is. That is what full casters are for.
Sadly, this is almost certainly true.It’s easier to imagine the end of the game than the end of caster supremacy?
It’s easier to imagine the end of the game than the end of caster supremacy?
Making it more powerful or making them more superhuman is not the same as improving it.I think so, yeah. This is why there are other games, other versions of D&D, even other versions of 5e.
1. Fighter doesn't need anymore reason to be multiclass dipped. Allowing a wizard to gain heavy armor proficiency by dipping fighter doesn't make imporver fighters, it improves wizards.At 1st level - Student of Arms:
1. Proficiency in heavy armor as a class ability, not just as a proficiency (this means you would get it on a multiclass into fighter).
2. Advantage on any Intelligence or Wisdom checks involving weapons or armor.
3. Proficiency in one of the following artisans tools: Smith's tools, Woodcarver's tools, Leatherworker's tools or Tinker's tools. Proficiency bonus is doubled when crafting or repairing weapons or armor.
At 3rd level - Weapons Expert:
1. Proficiency in ALL weapons except natural weapons and can figure out how any weapon works by studying it for an hour. By all weapons I mean anything that is functionally a weapon (including improvised weapons) - Catapults, Ballistae, Kua-Toa Monitor weapons, Sahagin Spiked nets, Chain Devil's Chain ...... if you find a crashed space ship with a laser gun the fighter has proficiency in it and automatically can figure out how it functions.
Note, although this provides proficiency and knowlege of use it does not enable the fighter to use something that is not phsically compatible with his body type or size, like a Titan's sword for example.
1. I actually like this one as it fits the fighter's niche as the master of weapons. I'm not so sure how useful it would be since most fighters would already be able to use most any magic item that's designed to be useful for them, but it captures the spirit of the class. This could also be good for multiclassing but, once again, that's helping other classes, not fighter.At 5th level - Use Magic Arms
1. Ignores all race, class and alignment restrictions for magic Armor and Weapons (this would include staves normally only available to casters).
2. +5 on all Charisma skill checks and Charisma saves for conflicts with sentient weapons or armor.
At 7th level - Examine Arms:
1. Can use an action to make a Wisdom or Intelligence check (players choice) to determine the damage types, damage dice and damage bonus of the weapon and effects or conditions imposed on a hit by any weapon being held by a creature which he can currently see. DC is 13 with the following modifiers: magic item (+1 to +5 for common through Legendary), +2 if it is not a martial or simple weapon. This is not usable on natural weapons. The first level advantage ability does apply to this check. This only provides the number of dice and type of damage of the weapon itself and effects that it can cause, it does not provide the attack bonus, bonus to damage due to ability scores or other abilities or the DC for saves agaisnt any effects the weapon imposes.
Example of use - Enemy cultist is holding a Dragontooth Dagger, fighter uses this ability. DC is 16 (13+3 for rare magic item). He rolls with advantage and if he passes the check he knows: The dagger does 1d4+1 piercing plus 1d6 acid on a hit and does an additional 1 piercing and 1d6 acid against enemies of the cult of the Dragon.
At 11th level - Martial Prowess:
1. Get rid of the 3rd extra attack (you would get 2 more at 20th level but you would only have 2 attacks until then)
2. Select a 2nd fighting style
Exactly! The minority of people just say it not stepping on my toes to boost the fighter because they are going to be fine with the Superman fighter they want, their feet are not going to be hurt. The fact that it will make the game worse for me and others or "step on our feet" does not matter to them.
The real reason this is such a problem is changing the fighter to make him Superman hurts EVERYONE who wants the fighter to stay where it is, and that includes both people who play fighters and like the current fighter and people who play other classes who want to keep the fighter in a support role. It will step on ALL of our toes, those playing the fighter and those not playing the fighter. The only people it will help (or I should say possibly help) are that small minority of players who want to play a Fighter with a large, leading role, and Superman powers. Those people want that but refuse to pick a class more suited to that style of play.
I have offered reasons why it should not change, both thematic reasons and personality-driven reasons. I have offered anecdotes showing how the current class works those are just dismissed out of hand because they are not "proof", while the opposing side offers no proof of their own. I've endorsed compromise solutions, like another class, but that is not good enough. The people who want to "fix" the fighter are only interested in fixes that hurt a large portion of the gaming population and "step on their feet".
You can keep your version of the fighter while those of us who prefer equitable play can have a version that is equitable and you can ban it from your games the same way I banned Dragonmarks in my games.
I haven't seen anyone that wants a Mythic Martial at higher levels that wouldn't be satisfied with an entirely new class called something else AND keeping the existing Fighter as is?
It is all over this very thread. Here is a post from a few pages ago:
The important thing is that people who want an improved fighter can't say two words without being shouted down and bogged down in pointless minutia designed to stymie actual discussion of the subject.
Not another class, an improved fighter!
If you are talking about a different new class fine, but many people (most people?) want to screw up the fighter specifically.
You can keep your version of the fighter while those of us who prefer equitable play can have a version that is equitable and you can ban it from your games the same way I banned Dragonmarks in my games.
But a fighter that is properly balanced against the wizard is pretty much improved by definition. It's impossible to make a fighter-similar class that is as powerful as a wizard that is not more powerful than the fighter.It is all over this very thread. Here is a post from a few pages ago:
The important thing is that people who want an improved fighter can't say two words without being shouted down and bogged down in pointless minutia designed to stymie actual discussion of the subject.
Not another class, an improved fighter!
If you are talking about a different new class fine, but many people (most people?) want to screw up the fighter specifically.