I think you peeps are not thinking about+n swords properly!

[grimslade]

Why? It's simple and elegant, math complications aside. How would you prefer it?

But it's not. It is flavorless and inelegant. A +1 is a bit of math, not magic. It is a kludge and is as ugly and as intrusive as any kludge.
A magic weapon doesn't need to fire meteors out of its hilt or turn into an ice saber. I'd settle for glowing in the presence of goblins and never needing sharpening. That is a magic sword. A sword +1 is not.

 

[Viking Bastard]

But it's not. It is flavorless and inelegant. A +1 is a bit of math, not magic. It is a kludge and is as ugly and as intrusive as any kludge.
A magic weapon doesn't need to fire meteors out of its hilt or turn into an ice saber. I'd settle for glowing in the presence of goblins and never needing sharpening. That is a magic sword. A sword +1 is not.

So pure fluff, you mean? I can also get behind that, except I'd nix anything that required the DM to keep track of PC stuff (like the Goblin detector). Also, my experience says that players generally don't care about purely fluffy things.

A +1 gives you clear "This is spethial" without any complications.

 

[Incenjucar]

There are so many better ways to make a sword better than just making it +1. Give it an ability that's actually related to being better. DR penetration, the ability to ignore shields, massive HP so it won't get sundered, dealing damage on a miss, being easily swapped between hands, granting an intimidation bonus...

 

[grimslade]

I'm glad your group still gets a kick out of the + 1 sword.
For me and mine, the +1 gets to be annoying with its cluster of relatives, the +1 shield and the +1 armor, along with the +1 amulet, +2 gloves and +1 bolts for the +1 crossbow.
As for adjusting the CR to preserver the addition addicted, why? Why keep the the almighty plus in a new addition (gah!) edition?
Unless Next returns to the simple combat of 1E, why not have magic items be magic. If you only have one melee basic attack per round you want to make sure that attack hits as often and as hard as possible. The addition squad makes sense. But if combat can have you be more cinematic and or tactical, allowing you to have AoO, sneak attack or warlocks curse, in addition to your basic sword swing and if the math is flatter the additives are not needed.

 

[Tovec]

What are the properties of ...

Strider's original sword, what about his new (last king of Gondor) one?
Link's starter, midway and master swords?
The sword in the stone vs a regular sword. Excalibur vs regular sword?

Usually its something EXTRA it does. But if we were talking in terms of pure magical-umph what would it look like? It would be easy to say a sword has evil bane or brilliant energy but does it have any other properties? Does it hit more effectively or with more power?

I'm honestly asking. If you can think of any other examples as well, please post them.

 

[NMcCoy]

Link's starter, midway and master swords?

Well, since these involve a video game, they can actually be codified.

In The Legend of Zelda: a Link to The Past, each sword upgrade generally doubles the damage dealt - the basic sword does 2 damage with a swing, while the final sword upgrade does 16. The Master Sword (and each upgrade beyond it) additionally offers increased reach and the ability to shoot beam attacks when at full health.

In general, the sword upgrades in Zelda games function much like sequential +N weapons - they have a linear upgrade path, offer increased reach (thus, accuracy) and damage, and confer generally only minor benefits beyond that.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

A +1 is a bit of math, not magic.

IMHO, it most certainly is magic- it makes anyone who wields it a better combatant merely by wielding it.

Stormbringer did that- and a whole bunch more, yes- but just because something is a minor magic does not make it "amagical."

So count me as one who is OK with +X Weapons of Math, even though I also like weapons that do something else as well.

 

[variant]

I just can't get excited about a sword of math when there are swords of fiery explosions out there.

But it's not. It is flavorless and inelegant. A +1 is a bit of math, not magic. It is a kludge and is as ugly and as intrusive as any kludge.
A magic weapon doesn't need to fire meteors out of its hilt or turn into an ice saber. I'd settle for glowing in the presence of goblins and never needing sharpening. That is a magic sword. A sword +1 is not.

Flaming Burst and every other magical weapon is still a 'sword of math'. You still add numbers.

 

[Incenjucar]

Flaming Burst and every other magical weapon is still a 'sword of math'. You still add numbers.

Wooooosh.

I didn't know that "fire" was a number.

 

[Imperialus]

The thing is that even in 1st ed a +1 or +2 weapon wasn't all that special. I mean how many +1 weapons were floating around Homlett as published in 1979?

Elmo had a +1 axe, +1 Chain, +2 shield and +2 dagger.
Rannos had a +1 dagger, +1 leather, +2 Short Sword and a +1 ring of protection.
Germag had a +2 chain shirt
Mellub had a +1 dagger and a +1 sword
Black Jay had +1 arrows, a cloak and boots of elvinkind
Terjon had a +1 mace

I could go on.

+x items to me have always been quite pedestrian. They're just there. Generally speaking I've always described items with up to a +2 being simply 'superior'. It depends on the overall tone of the campaign I am trying to set but a +1 sword might merely be castle forged steel. A +2 item might be a master crafted, pattern welded blade.

In my current (Labyrinth Lord) campaign which is a mashup of sword and planet style pulp like Burroughs Mars series, Vances Demon princes and Planet of Adventure, Bashki's wizards and Heavy Metal magazine.

Weapons up to +2 are forged of "starmetal" a strange alloy, lighter, stronger and more flexible that steel that becomes mutable when specific alchemical processes are undertaken on it. The metal itself is rare, but not terribly so, some societies even use it for high value coins. A master smith likely knows the techniques for working it. The difference between +1 and +2 is really only the capability of the smith working it. The same deal works for metal armour. Leather armour is a bit tougher, my solution was to simply make better leather out of more exotic creature types. Still no magic involved, it's just rarer and more expensive due to the difficulty in collecting it.

Its only once you hit +3 weapons and armour that things start getting magical. Or, rather they start taking the form of lost technology. A +3 sword might have a small power supply in it that causes the blade to vibrate at an extremely fast rate, a +5 sword is basically a light saber or Warhammer style power weapon. Even looking at modules it's the +3 and above weapons that start getting rare, so those are the ones that I'm willing to spend the time on fancying up.

Hell, by the time PC's are at a level where I'm thinking of handing out +3 weapons I'm just as likely to start doling out ray guns, power armour and plasma weapons, not to mention flying boats, robots, command codes for ancient orbital weapon platforms and so on. Hell one of the BBEG's (that has yet to see use) basically rampages around on an OGRE.