I want faster character creation. Also, I’m a monster.

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

I am almost always the DM. So character creation is kinda dull from my side. I love 5e but I am always restlessly seeking a better game. One that is bigger, faster and stronger. Sometimes it’s just a matter of my perception and I can enlist the help of my fellow EnWorlders to show me what I might be missing.

I can always send you the rules for "Kick, Kill, and Steal (or KKS)". It is a RPG me and a friend made up. Quick, easy to learn, fast characters, etc. with simple rules and combat systems. You only roll a d6 for anything you try and always fail on 1-3, succeed on 4-6.

Let me know if you want it as we didn't copyright it or anything.

 

[Immortal Sun]

Some would say it’s the choice of class, background and personality that makes it character creation.

Regardless the ultimate point of character creation isn’t about character custimization but instead it’s about having a character you can play in game.

But those are "decision points". So, if you remove them, what part of the "creation" process are you actually involved in.

That is such a woefully inadequate description of character creation I have to wonder if we're both playing D&D.

 

[Immortal Sun]

There's a non-negligible section of players who believe character differentiation should be done primarily through characterization at the table, rather than through build mechanics.

I think this can work in some OSR-like gameplay styles, but I don't think it fits into most modern styles of D&D play.

Kay. And I can still go into an ice-cream store offering 101 flavors and purchase a single scoop of vanilla in a basic cone, while Bob can purchase 7 different flavors and twice that many toppings.

Both of these people can even shop at the same ice-cream shop, and eat at the same table.

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

But those are "decision points". So, if you remove them, what part of the "creation" process are you actually involved in.

To play, or not to play? That, is the question!

 

[FrogReaver]

But those are "decision points". So, if you remove them, what part of the "creation" process are you actually involved in.

That is such a woefully inadequate description of character creation I have to wonder if we're both playing D&D.

Good thing I’ve never advocated for removing class, background and personality choices.

 

[FrogReaver]

Kay. And I can still go into an ice-cream store offering 101 flavors and purchase a single scoop of vanilla in a basic cone, while Bob can purchase 7 different flavors and twice that many toppings.

Both of these people can even shop at the same ice-cream shop, and eat at the same table.

But we aren’t asking whether more options is better. We are asking if more options slows down the game. It does. However there is a minimum number of things that I think need considered as essential choices for this to be d&d. Character class and background/personality are the important things.

 

[Immortal Sun]

But we aren’t asking whether more options is better. We are asking if more options slows down the game. It does. However there is a minimum number of things that I think need considered as essential choices for this to be d&d. Character class and background/personality are the important things.

Well, "personality" isn't part of the mechanical character creation, which frankly, is fast no matter how many options you include unless you're totally new to D&D, in which case, great limit people's options no argument (and we have the Basic Rules for that). But if you've been down this road before, I find it hard to believe you either A: didn't prep a backup or B: find character creation time consuming at all.

"Coming up with a backstory" as I already said can be one of the longest parts of character creation, but isn't a required element per the book. You're more than welcome to throw Generic Human Soldier #7 into the party every day of the week, it's only your DM that says you gotta do more.

I think "doing more" is what makes D&D well, fun. And I think "doing more" requires a little more room to work than Human+Fighter+Background.

 

[FrogReaver]

Well, "personality" isn't part of the mechanical character creation, which frankly, is fast no matter how many options you include unless you're totally new to D&D, in which case, great limit people's options no argument (and we have the Basic Rules for that). But if you've been down this road before, I find it hard to believe you either A: didn't prep a backup or B: find character creation time consuming at all.

"Coming up with a backstory" as I already said can be one of the longest parts of character creation, but isn't a required element per the book. You're more than welcome to throw Generic Human Soldier #7 into the party every day of the week, it's only your DM that says you gotta do more.

I think "doing more" is what makes D&D well, fun. And I think "doing more" requires a little more room to work than Human+Fighter+Background.

The question is t what’s more fun of itself. It’s about character creation speed and how that factors into the fun of a more deadly game

 

[Immortal Sun]

The question is t what’s more fun of itself. It’s about character creation speed and how that factors into the fun of a more deadly game

Man you just pulled so many factors on me I might have to do some long division. There's no way I can account for all the various tastes around what is or isn't enjoyable in a "more deadly game" and the last time I ran one I was bored out of my mind since everything in the OP came true every 15 minutes. Why invest when your character will never develop, never get anywhere and never survive?

Just erase the name "Timmy" on the sheet, write in "Bobby" and be done with it. Fastest character creation I can think of.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

cons:
-all that work for nothing
-the dream that the character would do some cool stuff has been crushed.
-here comes the new guy, how does he fit? How long till he gets here? How do we introduce him?
-it’s nice how you let my equipment continue to work for the party.
-here comes another effort at making something special with the current paradigm on creation and how long that can take.

pros:
-something new to explore

and that was all I could think of. It was all post hoc and probably just trash.

Well, many people have already said a pro is making player choice and smart tactics matter, since character death is more likely. But there's one thing I think people are missing.

Killing characters is FUN. Now, I'm not just saying that as a sadistic DM, but also as a masochistic player. The stories behind a character dying can be just as fun, if not more entertaining than character success.

However, while old school D&D is like this, it has evolved to be more story driven. And since the players are running as the story protagonists, they have developed a kind of plot armor.

I would say maybe just change up the game. Call of Cthulu is a good example of game where character death happens frequently. Perhaps have a couple of sessions with your players running one-shots or mini-campaigns using something like Call of Cthulu rules, but reskinned into D&D fantasy. Then when you got your fix, and your players see how fun death, dying, and madness can be, you return to vanilla 5th edition D&D.