I want my actions to matter

[pointofyou]

Wherever you fall on the share DC/AC/etc. numbers side of the argument, I applaud y'all's consistency. I run it both ways in my games, sometimes in the same session.

Honestly likewise. No small-minded hobgoblins for me.

 

[MNblockhead]

Honestly likewise. No small-minded hobgoblins for me.

I've always wanted to stat up a tribe of Foolish Consistency Hobgoblins who speak "Prescriptive Goblinoid" and whose society strongly values doing things the "right way." You think Devils and their contracts are the epitome of Lawful Evil? Nah, wait until you encounter my Foolish Consistency Tribe!

 

[Manbearcat]

No 5e pc is an "expert climber" with a possible exception of those with a "climb speed" because the skill system in 5e no longer contains a "climb" skill.. using athletics to climb a hazardous surface like a 50 foot tall wall covered in slippery goop is literally "hold my beer" territory. As such e they are incapable of having the skill to judge a particular climb.

Expert climber is a world away from intermediate (and world class is another step change from that). Intermediate climbers can read pitches, routes, etc with very high proficiency, they just don’t have the technical chops and physical prowess to send them. I'm one of these people. I'm sure it means nothing to you (see below screen snips for reference), but on the YDS scale, I can climb several 5.11a-d, and the stray 5.12a that is in my technical and physical wheelhouse. On the v-scale, I can climb most every V4 and some V5s that are in my technical and physical wheelhouse. Despite those climbs putting me squarely in intermediate territory, I can still read/develop the appropriate route beta for climbs all the way up to world class level. I know what I'm looking at...I just can't send the climb because of my technical and physical limitations. Hence, I can, with a high degree of precision, nail down the difficulty of individual sequences and a climb holistically; in D&D-ville that equals "nail down a DC."

Level 3 Fighters are routinely fighting lions and animals that would eviscerate me (despite the reality that I'm an expert grappler). They're doing that because of their physical prowess and cognitive tools (which technique amplifies...but you are not killing a lion in physical combat without basically superhuman physical prowess and mental processing/confidence)....which directly translates to capability in climbing. A level 3 Fighter with 18 strength and proficiency in Athletics is should absolutely be my equal in climbing, bare minimum; almost surely my better. Hence, any Fighter in D&D world with Athletics (which is basically all of them from 3.x, 4e, and 5e?) should be the equivalent of an intermediate climber bare minimum. As such, D&D Fighters should be possessed of the cognitive tools/skillset to read most every climb they encounter. They just may not be possessed of the technical chops or physical prowess to send them. By level 9-11, when 5e Fighters are sporting 20s in Strength and +4 Prof Athletics, they should be surpassing me in climbing (at least cognitively and physically if not technically...though likely technically as well) like I'm standing still.

To someone who doesn't know what an Expert level climber looks like (forget World Class and the absolutely tail of that distribution), they're doing freaky stuff that you probably think is impossible.

 

[tetrasodium]

Expert climber is a world away from intermediate (and world class is another step change from that). Intermediate climbers can read pitches, routes, etc with very high proficiency, they just don’t have the technical chops and physical prowess to send them. I'm one of these people. I'm sure it means nothing to you (see below screen snips for reference), but on the YDS scale, I can climb several 5.11a-d, and the stray 5.12a that is in my technical and physical wheelhouse. On the v-scale, I can climb most every V4 and some V5s that are in my technical and physical wheelhouse. Despite those climbs putting me squarely in intermediate territory, I can still read/develop the appropriate route beta for climbs all the way up to world class level. I know what I'm looking at...I just can't send the climb because of my technical and physical limitations. Hence, I can, with a high degree of precision, nail down the difficulty of individual sequences and a climb holistically; in D&D-ville that equals "nail down a DC."

Level 3 Fighters are routinely fighting lions and animals that would eviscerate me (despite the reality that I'm an expert grappler). They're doing that because of their physical prowess and cognitive tools (which technique amplifies...but you are not killing a lion in physical combat without basically superhuman physical prowess and mental processing/confidence)....which directly translates to capability in climbing. A level 3 Fighter with 18 strength and proficiency in Athletics is should absolutely be my equal in climbing, bare minimum; almost surely my better. Hence, any Fighter in D&D world with Athletics (which is basically all of them from 3.x, 4e, and 5e?) should be the equivalent of an intermediate climber bare minimum. As such, D&D Fighters should be possessed of the cognitive tools/skillset to read most every climb they encounter. They just may not be possessed of the technical chops or physical prowess to send them. By level 9-11, when 5e Fighters are sporting 20s in Strength and +4 Prof Athletics, they should be surpassing me in climbing (at least cognitively and physically if not technically...though likely technically as well) like I'm standing still.

To someone who doesn't know what an Expert level climber looks like (forget World Class and the absolutely tail of that distribution), they're doing freaky stuff that you probably think is impossible.


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They seems like a lot of tables aiming to prove you personally have some degree of proficiency in climbing. The level 3 fighter you reference is incapable of that proficiency because the skill does not exist in 5e.

 

[hawkeyefan]

They seems like a lot of tables aiming to prove you personally have some degree of proficiency in climbing. The level 3 fighter you reference is incapable of that proficiency because the skill does not exist in 5e.

Weird. Characters climb all the time in games I’ve been in.

 

[pointofyou]

They seems like a lot of tables aiming to prove you personally have some degree of proficiency in climbing. The level 3 fighter you reference is incapable of that proficiency because the skill does not exist in 5e.

"Your Strength (Athletics) check covers difficult situations you encounter while climbing, jumping, or swimming."

 

[Manbearcat]

They seems like a lot of tables aiming to prove you personally have some degree of proficiency in climbing. The level 3 fighter you reference is incapable of that proficiency because the skill does not exist in 5e.

Did you not read what I just wrote? Its abundantly clear what I wrote and it doesn't churn out "I personally have some degree of proficiency in climbing." It is a claim with supporting statements and a conclusion about the realities of climbers. I routinely climb with dozens and dozens and dozens of people from intermediate skill to expert skill. None of us/them can send a world class climb...but every single one of them can look at one and develop the climbing beta to navigate it and put a difficulty on the climb within a very small margin of error (which is a DC in D&D). Every Fighter in D&D who is trained in Athletics would have some ability here because possessing Athletics means they have exposure to/prowess in climbing, jumping, swimming and activities that cover the physical/cognitive/technical prowess/tools that Athletics entails.

This is an opportunity for you to correct the wrong or made up things you're saying (included in which is that you need to tackle this on page 175 of the 5e PHB):

 

[Campbell]

They seems like a lot of tables aiming to prove you personally have some degree of proficiency in climbing. The level 3 fighter you reference is incapable of that proficiency because the skill does not exist in 5e.

Using Ability Scores

D&D Beyond - Dungeons & Dragons Fifth Edition Tools, Rules, Races, Classes, Items, Spells, Monsters, and More

www.dndbeyond.com

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​

Athletics​

Your Strength (Athletics) check covers difficult situations you encounter while climbing, jumping, or swimming. Examples include the following activities:

• You attempt to climb a sheer or slippery cliff, avoid hazards while scaling a wall, or cling to a surface while something is trying to knock you off.
• You try to jump an unusually long distance or pull off a stunt midjump.
• You struggle to swim or stay afloat in treacherous currents, storm-tossed waves, or areas of thick seaweed. Or another creature tries to push or pull you underwater or otherwise interfere with your swimming.

As described by the 5e rules themselves Athletics is Climb + Jump + Swim. In the move to 4e these skills were combined into Athletics. 5e retains that design decision.

 

[grankless]

if this is an accurate description of your game, it needs fixing. You are basically saying that no one has a clue or likely ever will get one, all players just stumble around in the dark.

No wonder they think that their actions do not matter

the incredible beauty of him outright saying he refuses to give his players information. utterly beautiful. the call is coming from inside the house man

 

[pointofyou]

the incredible beauty of him outright saying he refuses to give his players information. utterly beautiful. the call is coming from inside the house man

It is extremely hard to believe you can act in ways that matter if the GM will not share information.