Iconic Outsiders (Tanaari, Baatezu, Yugoloths, Modrons, etc.) - How many species?

[Arkhandus]

victorysaber, please fix your initial post's spelling of Rilmani. I noticed in this thread and the previous one that you (and I think a few others) kept referring to them as Rilamni, when it's actually Rilmani.

Planetars, solars, and devas are separate from the standard alignment-based celestial/angel/whatever hierarchy/division. There are three kinds of devas though in 3E; Astral Devas, Monadic Devas, and Movanic Devas. Monadic Devas (CR 12) are in the 3E Fiend Folio, as are Movanic Devas (CR 9).

As for the Baatezu, Monsters of Faerun has a few:
Red Abishai (CR 8, MoF, 3.0)
Blue Abishai (CR 7, MoF, 3.0)
Green Abishai (CR 6, MoF, 3.0)
Black Abishai (CR 5, MoF, 3.0)
White Abishai (CR 5, MoF, 3.0)


Also, sidenote, going through some of my books to check for this sort of stuff reminded me yet again how depressingly few good-aligned creatures are in the Epic Level Handbook. The only one there is the elder treant. You'd think there might be at least one epic celestial or something, what with all the epic undead, horrors, vermin, slaadi, abominations, and whatnot that must surely threaten the continued existence/balance/whatever of the multiverse. :\

Also x2: I fourth or fifth the notion that the thread name be changed to something short like "Iconic Outsiders - How Many?"

 

[Ripzerai]

Actually, it's not less detail

Actually, it is less detail.

Throughout much of the MotP, DMG, monster books, and Planar Handbook, it's the same material, only summarized. This is obvious if you look at them side by side.

It's not more "generic," just briefer. It's not like they only took out "setting-specific" portions - in fact, much of the setting specific stuff, like the factions and Sigil, were left in. They just spend less time on them. And that's only because they spend less time on everything.

Yes, changes have been made. 1e and 2e said there were 18 inner planes and 3e says there are only 6, and the 18 number isn't "canon." Neither, however, is the number 6. That's just the example cosmology, after all; D&D no longer has a "canonical" cosmological system.

But what does "canon" even mean anymore? Nothing in the 3rd edition Manual of the Planes is "canon" - it's just a book of suggestions. Nothing in Complete Psion, Magic of Incarnum, or Tome of Magic is "canon" either - they're optional books.

Is anything canonical? Sure, settings like the Forgotten Realms or Eberron have fairly stable canons. D&D in general does not. D&D just keeps introducing new options you can accept or not accept as you will, depending on whether or not you buy the new books.

So, to answer your question. No. Previous edition material isn't, barring specific campaign settings, "canon." Neither is current edition material.

Do previous editions have interesting material that's compatible with stuff from the current edition and can easily be used to enrich your 3.5 game? I think so.

 

[BOZ]

the list of demons will probably explode after FC1 is released!

 

[Baron Opal]

In other words, if I don't play 2e/have never played 2e, then 99% of the Planescape stuff is irrelavent since most of it does not appear in 3e. Thanks.

True, until they mention it.

The Planescape material is probably going to be the spine for the 3e planar material. We just haven't had anything as focussed on planar material yet. The material that has been published has not really contradicted anything from 2e material.

That said, I bet that the Fiendish Codicies will be the "Planescape" of 3e. The evil side, anyway.

 

[victorysaber]

the list of demons will probably explode after FC1 is released!

as it stands, the list of demons are **already** exploding haha.


btw is there any comprehensive list of unique evil outsiders (ie the ones that have been appearing in Dragon's Demonomicon) that have been published?

 

[Klaus]

Thirded for the subject line. It's also screwing up my main page as well. Some of us poor folk only have small screens.

Just as a question to those whose planar knowledge far exceeds my own. Is the Planescape stuff actually considered canon for any setting other than Planescape? Having never played Planescape, I cannot recall seeing much of the above actually being included in core.

I'll add a fourth voice to the request to edit the thread title. Really, "Planar Exemplars (Tanaari, Baatezu, etc.) - How many?" covers it all.

 

[sckeener]

Prior to the Great Crash, it was established in a thread that the following were the epitomies of their respective alignments.

TANAR'RI the Chaotic Evil Iconics
*Klurichir (CR 25, FF)
Myrmyxicus (CR 21, FF)
Balor (CR 20, MM)
Kelvezu (CR 18, MMII, 3.0)
Marilith (CR 17,MM)
Sorrowsworn Demon (CR 17, MMIII)
Nalfeshnee (CR 14, MM)
Akilith (CR 14, FF)
Glabrezu (CR 13, MM)
Jarilith (CR 13, MMII, 3.0)
Goristro (CR 13, MotP, 3.0)
Hezrou (CR 11, MM)
Chasme (CR 10, BoVD, 3.0)
Vrock (CR 9, MM)
Maurezhi (CR 9, FF)
Zovvut (CR 9, MMII, 3.0)
Palrethee (CR 8, MMII, 3.0)
Succubus (CR 7, MM)
Arrow Demon (CR 7, MMIII)
Armanite (CR 7, MotP, 3.0)
Babau (CR 6, MM/CR 7, BoVD, 3.0)
Uridezu (CR 6, MotP, 3.0)
Jovoc (CR 5, MMII, 3.0)
Bar-lgura (CR 5, BoVD, 3.0)
Rutterkin (CR 3, BoVD, 3.0)
Dretch (CR 2, MM)
Mane (CR 1, BoVD, 3.0)

Here are some missed:
Anzu (Tanar'ri)
Aspect of Demogorgon (Tanar'ri)
Aspect of Orcus (Tanar'ri)
Bogannarr (Tanar'ri)
Bulezau (Tanar'ri)
Cerebrilith (Tanar'ri)
Colchiln (Tanar'ri)
Kerzit (Tanar'ri)
Larval Nabassu (Tanar'ri)
Nabassu (Tanar'ri)
Orlath (Tanar'ri)
Skurchur (Tanar'ri)
Turagathshnee (Tanar'ri)
Vathugu (Tanar'ri)

Attached's a list I was working on for creatures to be found in the Abyss broken down by
Book, Name,Tanar'ri, Type/Subtype, Climate/Terrain/Environment, page #, and CR

 

[victorysaber]

Here are some missed:
Anzu (Tanar'ri)
Aspect of Demogorgon (Tanar'ri)
Aspect of Orcus (Tanar'ri)
Bogannarr (Tanar'ri)
Bulezau (Tanar'ri)
Cerebrilith (Tanar'ri)
Colchiln (Tanar'ri)
Kerzit (Tanar'ri)
Larval Nabassu (Tanar'ri)
Nabassu (Tanar'ri)
Orlath (Tanar'ri)
Skurchur (Tanar'ri)
Turagathshnee (Tanar'ri)
Vathugu (Tanar'ri)

Attached's a list I was working on for creatures to be found in the Abyss broken down by
Book, Name,Tanar'ri, Type/Subtype, Climate/Terrain/Environment, page #, and CR

Fantastic! Don't suppose you have any for the other outsiders? I'll add it in ASAP.

 

[Brakkart]

Not sure if it has been converted into 3.X yet, but another Tanar'ri missing from your list there is the Wastrilith which first appeared in the old Dragon Mountain boxed set and then in one of the Planescape Monstrous Compendium's (I think).

Also a less iconic outsider race would be the Demodands/Gehreleth's (CE)

*Shator CR 16 (FF pg45)
Kelubar CR 13 (FF pg44)
Farastu CR 11 (FF pg43)

 

[Cam Banks]

Dragonlance, like the Realms and Eberron, no longer has any real connection to Planescape's Great Wheel. It samples from the core planar concepts like all of the other settings do, but it is not true that there is a Sigil to which plane-hopping Krynnfolk can go to when they're looking for some high-level faction entertainment.

Ravenloft, similarly, has nothing whatsoever to do with Dragonlance's default cosmology in 3e. If you're running a Ravenloft campaign, of course, then it may very well have plenty to do with it. As of this current date, Soth didn't go to Ravenloft "officially."

Cheers,
Cam