Idea for a Fighter Substitue

[Mista Collins]

Do that many people "dip" into the fighter class as you guys mention? I have never seen this problem in any of the games that I have either ran or played in (and that is quite a bit). The only character I have seen do this was a mage/fighter.. but he did it because he wanted to have a mage focusing on melee touch attacks. But his fighter levels and mage levels were even.

 

[SBMC]

The issue is primarily driven by the fact that people think that all major abilities need to compound over levels such as the Barbarian's rage or the Rouge's sneak attack - not true at all. A stand alone ability is worth just as much. Most feats are stand alone abilities. Sure ya need other feats as prerequisites in many cases but mot are still stand alone - Power Attack is a prereq for Improved overrun; but Power Attack is not used when doing an Overrun.


This is a 20th Level Human Fighter (that also took 2 flaws giving him 21 feats):

Weapon Focus - Long Sword
Greater Weapon Focus - Long Sword
Weapon Specialization - Long Sword
Greater Weapon Specialization - Long Sword
Improved Critical - Long Sword
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Improved Overrun
Improved Bull Rush
Shock Trooper
Iron Will
Quick Draw
Combat Reflexes
Mounted Combat
Ride by Attack
Spirited Charge
Combat Expertise
Improved Trip
Point Blank Shot
Far Shot
Flaw: Grudge Keeper
Flaw: Glory-Hound

Are you really going to tell me that an increased BAB is going to beat this? Not make him overpowered? Think about a combat situation - think about what this guy can do!

I could mix and match - even add in some non fighter feats and still destroy nearly anything in combat. I would take out Improved Overrun and Improved Trip (taking Improved Trip at 21st level) and replace them with Endurance and Leadership myself; as that is my personal taste and flavor I use for my own Fighter(s).

 

[JimAde]

Do that many people "dip" into the fighter class as you guys mention? I have never seen this problem in any of the games that I have either ran or played in (and that is quite a bit). The only character I have seen do this was a mage/fighter.. but he did it because he wanted to have a mage focusing on melee touch attacks. But his fighter levels and mage levels were even.

I see a lot of people "dip" the fighter, but I don't really think it's a problem. I see it as a (for example) wizard with a martial bent. While the proficiencies and feats you get for a 2-level dip are nice I don't have a problem with it.

I agree with Crothian in that you have to identify what you see as the problem before evaluating a proposed solution. Simply increasing the fighter's BAB will definitely make him more powerful (especially when you figure in power attack and/or Combat Expertise) so I assume that power is the problem maggot is trying to address. And I like the way the added power is spread out through the class's progression.

Having said that, I think fighters are fine as is.

 

[Felnar]

flavor issues:
1. the class ability a fighter gains at 2nd level is identical to the class ability a fighter gains at 20th level
2. any class can get any feat (except weapon spec), taking fighters 'flavor'

the fighter class is basically designed to be dipped into
there is little reason to take the higher levels

SBMC - why not trade in 2 fighter feats for 4 levels worth of barbarian abilities/skills/hitdice?

what if at every odd-level after 10th, Fighters got +2 BAB instead of the normal +1
would an additional iterative attack lure people into wanting the second ten levels of fighter?
would it help fighters stand out as fighters?

 

[Sadrik]

I like going with the improved BAB as the fighters weapon specialization thing so that they get one weapon that advances faster than their others. It would remove weapon specialization from the feats and put it firmly into the fighters realm as an ability. It also would improve over levels and free up all of those feats that they would have to take improved weapon focus/specialization etc.

How about this:
1st level fighter ability:
Weapon Mastery
Whenever a fighter takes weapon focus in a weapon they do not get the standard benefit instead they use the improved BAB chart and gain a damage bonus with that weapon equal to +1 per four levels of the fighter.