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D&D 4E Idea for Necromancer in 4e

NewfieDave

First Post
In light of the new 4e Wizard losing out on Necromancy, it looks like we'll be getting a full-fledged Necromancer class sometime in the future (unless the Warlock kills him and takes his stuff).

I've never been satisfied with Necromancers in previous editions. In actual play, they always felt just like Wizards but with a handful of different spells. I say, let the Necromancer be what he should be: the ultimate class for dealing with powers of life and death. No Fireballs, no Glitterdust, no Disintegrate. That's what Wizards do. A Necromancer should have the power to kill you in his own unique way.

Obviously Necromancy in general needs a face lift in 4e. It had very few spells in 3.X when compared to some of the other schools, and most of it's effective combat options were save or die(ish). We know save or die won't be around, so how could a Necromancer be viable in combat?

The most obvious answer is the power to create and command undead. It's the most iconic thing the Necromancer has going for himself. Unfortunately, that makes it an inherently evil class that won't be able to co-exist with a typical LG Paladin. The ability to create/command undead should be a totally optional talent tree so that a "party friendly" version of the Necromancer can be played.

So what powers should a good/unaligned Necromancer have in combat? Vampiric Touch is a staple. Perhaps expand on the ability to tap into the raw life force of other creatures. Spectral Hand would be really enhanced if it was a swift action to summon at will. The Necromancer could be a striker, but one who has high survivability thanks to his mastery over his own lifeforce, as well as the lifeforces of those around him. Again, this sounds like a type of talent tree.

The other combat option I'd like to see them have is fear. Fear could easily be crafted as a viable option for all levels of play. A weak fear could impose penalties on the target(s); a moderate fear could reduce the available actions of the target(s); and a strong fear could actually be capable of dealing damage (cardiac arrest if reduced below 0). A third possible talent tree.

IMO, these three potential trees are promising enough to build an excellent Necromancer class. They could be expanded to look like this:

Undeath -> (create minions, command undead, gain undead traits)
Fear -> (penalizing, disabling, and damaging abilities)
Soul -> (abilities to damage/effect the lifeforces of others and heal/strengthen personal lifeforce)

The Necromancer's power source should be Arcane, and he should draw power from himself much like a 3.X Sorcerer. I like the idea that Necromancers are simply born with the latent power to effect metaphysical life forces. Some of the forces they work with are tainted (especially anything dealing with undeath) and working with these forces taints your soul and forces your alignment to evil.

Raise Dead and its friends should be restricted to Divine casters. Once dead, a body loses all of its lifeforce. A Necromancer can only revive a creature by infusing it with tainted lifeforce energy, that twists the corpse into an undead monstrosity. Non-tainted lifeforce energy is inneffective, since the creature's soul has already crossed over to the Divine realm.
 

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Khaalis

Adventurer
I am placing my money on the idea that the "new wave" of "Sorcerer" classes in 3.5E will be the future of such specialist ideas. In this the Dread Necromancer is highly likely to come back in a supplemental source (DDI, PHBX, etc.). This is the best solution to the "sorcerer problem" in my mind and it gives WotC a way to release a series of new caster type classes that each feel unique from one another.

As for the Warlock, I think he killed the Warmage and stole his stuff, not the necro. ;)
 

I'd really hate for a necromancer to be limited to evil-only, either explicitly or simply through being too thoroughly hamstrung by the available power/feat/spell selections. I'm fine with the whole concept of messing with the undead being evil, but there's got to be more to it than that. If (as it seems) we're throwing out the whole only-divine-spellcasters-can-heal paradigm, perhaps giving necromancers some healing abilities would be possible? It certainly fits into the life-force theme. Perhaps a spectrum of black-grey-white necromancy is in order, each with its own specialised power chains. The darkest end of black would be where undead creation is situated, with healing at the other end of the scale (stuff like debuffing, speaking with the dead and so on would presumably be somewhere in the middle), and progressing too far down one path will bar you from achieving the highest-level abilities in the other?

Necromancer sounds like a pretty clear case of Arcane Controller using this formulation, doesn't it?
 

neceros

Adventurer
Even though it seems popular in instant replay games like EverQuest and such, I think the following. D&D necromancers should have power over the dead and undead. I love "pet-classes" a lot. It's fun to let the summoned creature venture beyond and stomp on opponents from the safety of over there.

Also, Necromancers need life force altering spells. For instance, HP conversions and spell pool conversions (mana). Lifetap, manatap, and a spell to convert hp into mana, etc. However the designs can see fit to doing this, it would be an awesome power to control and would give benefit tot he stain of being "evil", even if evil isn't really a static score anymore.
 

Rechan

Adventurer
The one problem with focusing on Fear is you run up against monsters that are immune to it. So congratulations - the thing your character is structured to do is now useless in the fight!

I say that the Necro also needs undead fighting spells. Necros are about mastery over undeath, and choosing Necromancy to fight undead should be a viable option for Good Necros.

Protection against undead attacks and means to kill them, imho, is what a White Necromancer should be about.

Also, I've been saying from day one that the Necro needs an undead/deathless "pet". Rules similar to a paladin's mount or an Animal Companion; the undead minion grows more powerful as they advance, and they can share some spells, or possibly some sense links.
 

Shieldhaven

Explorer
You wouldn't actually need to make a whole lot of monsters immune to fear if you didn't set up fear as an effect that forced the enemy to flee. Fear-as-debuff has a lot more design space, I think, and it gets around the save-or-out-of-the-fight problem that fear effects posed in 3.x.

I think, though, that you could give necromancers extensive powers over the undead to compensate for the fact that undead are traditionally immune to fear effects. You might be out of luck against constructs - with neither a normal life force nor a capacity to experience fear, the necromancer has a bit of a problem. It seems to me that necromancers are more frequently in control of golems than fighting them in fantasy, so there aren't a whole lot of examples to draw upon.

Haven
 

Traycor

Explorer
Rechan said:
Protection against undead attacks and means to kill them, imho, is what a White Necromancer should be about.
I like the idea of a white necromancer that focuses on healing, attacks vs undead, and undead protection. Throw in a smattering of speaking with undead and some divination (communing with spirits) and you're good to go.

Give a flesh golem pet to white necromancers, and an undead pet to black (evil) necromancers.
 

Engilbrand

First Post
I don't agree that Animation is inherently evil. What if the Necromancer used his own lifeforce to "power" his construct? Take X damage to give a corpse life. You control it because it's just an extension of yourself in a different body. The soul is already gone. You could even have higher level spells that allow you to either temporarily keep the soul in the body or do a full resurrection. I could see Necromancers having the ability to talk to the dead and even "channel" them.
Example:
Richard the Necromancer is in a party. One of the powerful enemy henchmen is killed. Richard realizes that magic hasn't been nearly as effective as he would like. Rich channels the dead henchman into himself and gains bonuses and possibly a class feature or two as the spirit of the dead henchman grants him knowledge and power.
Brian Lumley's "Necroscope" series is fantastic. While there is a "typical" Necromancer for a bad guy, the main character could easily been created using D&D. He can talk to the dead, they can temporarily take him over and, in extreme cases, he can actually raise them. Well, they raise themselves, but the same idea works here.
Remember, alignment is mostly going out the window, just like the Planar Cosmology. Whose to say that animation is still inherently evil? It could be completely neutral, which is as it should be.
Disturbing? Yes. But someone walking around with an animated Ogre could be interesting.
 


Commonblade

First Post
I will probably get pelted by tomatoes for this but I would like to see a necromancer in the vain of the Diablo 2 necro. :heh:

I can see curses, poisons, animation (both undead and objects), and bone spells.

At will abilities: Poison Dagger, Vampiric Touch, Bone Spur, Force Missile (for ghost)
Encounter: Corpse Explosion, Poison Nova, Spectral Spear, Curses, Bone Armor
Daily: Wall of Bone, Bone Cage,
Ritual: Earth Golem, Blood Golem, Iron Golem, Fire Golem.
Extra: Undead Talents - Can create and control CHA mod in undead. Undead have bonus to damage equal to your CHA mod. Standard action to create from corpse.
Take a talent to get different types.
Dead Defenders - (max amount = Level) : Low HP, Low Damage melee fodder
Dead Controllers - (max amount = Level/10) : Low HP, Fire bolts of elemental Doom
Dead Leader - (max amount = Level/5) : As Defenders but Buff Allied undead.
Dead Striker - (max amount = Level/ 3): As Defenders but explode in rain of bones when defeated.

Yeah I know, not that great, but its a start of an idea, something I might make work on the side.
 

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