Ideas for adventure path for the plane of Limbo

[RealMarkP]

The plane of Limbo isn't as rich as the material plane in terms of adventures and settings. What I'd like to do is adapt some adventures or adventure paths into Limbo, targeting level 7-12 (I don't mind jumping part-way into an adventure path). What I'm looking for is a setting that has a good mix of Urban and some dungeon crawl. So, I'll be looking at the Freeport series, War of the Burning Sky, Ptolus from Paizo, etc. I even considered adapting the Red Hand of Doom into a Limbo setting. However, I've actually never played any of these, so I really don't know what I'm getting into especially when adapting them to Limbo. Think of the endless soup of chaos as a sea and the various influxes of the elements as tropical storms. There will be Slaadi pirates, Islands of land, Ancient structures, Gith towns and cities, abandoned magic, banished creatures, etc.

All suggestions are welcome.

 

[Shemeska]

And it's a shame that more hasn't been set there, and the plane not explored as much as some others, because the infinite chaos of Limbo (or Pathfinder's Maelstrom) provides for some really spectacular vistas and possibilities to work with.

The ocean analogy works certainly, though with the classical Limbo the propensity of the environment to shift randomly between liquid/solid/gas/anything else makes for a rough time for sailing if you go for a mostly conventional ocean analogy. With Limbo (and the deep Maelstrom) it's a 3-dimensional void, and gravity might be subjective and/or influenced by islands of more stable matter. Pathfinder's Maelstrom also exists as something of an ocean in which the other Outer Planes drift within like islands of stability. The regions near to those other planes can be thought of as metaphysical shallows, and they're more conventionally terrestrial rather than fully 3d void, taking on characteristics of the bordering planes, and getting more fluid and distinctly weirder the deeper out you travel. I've always viewed the border areas as very conducive to transplanting in conventional adventure material - assuming you're interested in the PF Limbo-analog's tropes here.

There was a portion of the 2e module-series 'Tales of the Infinite Staircase' that partially took place in Limbo. That might be worth a glance if you can find a copy or have one handy.

But even if you're not going out much into the drifting fluid void of Limbo, sticking more conventional modules onto an island in Limbo can work perfectly well, just with the caveat that the sky is going to be crazy looking and it might occasionally rain something other than rain, and slaadi might occasionally try to eat people, etc.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

The words "Urban" and "Limbo" together?

My brain just had a seizure.

...better now. While technically anything could exist in the plane of chaos, when I think Urban, I think order, established, structure, permanence. (Don't let my lack of imagination hold you back, however. If you figure it out, more power to ya!)

I don't know who wrote this, but this is the best summary of what I would understand a Limbo city. This is a description of Xaos, the gate town in the Outlands. Enjoy: Xaos

Also, talk to the people Here, somebody has similar ideas.

 

[RealMarkP]

There was a portion of the 2e module-series 'Tales of the Infinite Staircase' that partially took place in Limbo. That might be worth a glance if you can find a copy or have one handy.

But even if you're not going out much into the drifting fluid void of Limbo, sticking more conventional modules onto an island in Limbo can work perfectly well, just with the caveat that the sky is going to be crazy looking and it might occasionally rain something other than rain, and slaadi might occasionally try to eat people, etc.

I'll definitely look into that adventure. I also am reading into the planescape box set about limbo.

The words "Urban" and "Limbo" together?

My brain just had a seizure.

Well, the idea is not as far fetched as you might think. Limbo has a great githzerai city called Shra'kt'lor, where chaos yields to the order imposed by the anarchs. Since there isn't any liturature about this city, I'd argue that any of the great cities in D&D could be slotted in it's place. I wouldn't go as far as making it, as an example, Sharn from Eberron because it relies heavily on lore that is specific to that campaign setting: Dragonmark Houses, etc. I know nothing of Ptolus or Freeport or any other major city (with a few exceptions, such as Waterdeep) so I came here for insight. So the question is, what city is generic enough and lawful enough to be Shra'kt'lor?

I'll definitely look into Xaos.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Well, the idea is not as far fetched as you might think. Limbo has a great githzerai city called Shra'kt'lor, where chaos yields to the order imposed by the anarchs.

Ah... so if you're putting a bubble of imposed order around a city while on the Plane, then that makes some sense. Stepping outside the city limits though, what an adventure! Be sure to choose an entirely self sufficient city: one that does not rely upon external trade, outlying farmlands, overhead weather effects, etc. Because anything outside the order-bubble would be unreliable.

But yeah, this has potential to be pretty cool. Let us know what you settle on and how it goes!

 

[Dozen]

. Think of the endless soup of chaos as a sea and the various influxes of the elements as tropical storms. There will be Slaadi pirates, Islands of land, Ancient structures, Gith towns and cities, abandoned magic, banished creatures, etc.

All suggestions are welcome.

The ocean analogy works certainly, though with the classical Limbo the propensity of the environment to shift randomly between liquid/solid/gas/anything else makes for a rough time for sailing if you go for a mostly conventional ocean analogy.

That's easy to fix. Limbo doesn't have a permanent landscape in a vacuum, but creatures with high Wisdom score can influence it. All you need is a particularly wise captain, and they can sail through the whole plane if you're patient.

...better now. While technically anything could exist in the plane of chaos, when I think Urban, I think order, established, structure, permanence. (Don't let my lack of imagination hold you back, however. If you figure it out, more power to ya!)

Come on, that's closeminded. Societies based around chaos can and did exist in the real world. I have some examples the OP could use. Ever heard of Kowloon Walled? It was an independent settlement somewhere around Hong Kong. The Chinese government tore the place down because they were thriving on the anarchy they had, and a free and modern city with healthcare, water pipes and electricity, but without any government, law enforcement or taxes looked bad on their PR. Well, that and the fact any criminal could enter and flip it to the cops following him.
Then there's Freetown Christiania, where national pastimes include getting high, and getting high so hard Denmark might actually come over and join/ruin the fun with tear gas.
And lastly? Well, there's Hungary, where using rear gates in the legal system, theft, working around taxation and laughing at our incompetent policemen is the average topic of a party. Not all of us are doing it, but I haven't met anyone who wasn't okay with it. We descend from tribes of nomadic raiders who didn't have a noun for work before they borrowed a Slavic one (For torment. Zing!) and spent the last twelve centuries around the Balkans of all places, so what can you expect? Not that the country itself works, but we're alive and breathing, so...

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Come on, that's closeminded. Societies based around chaos can and did exist in the real world.

Well, yeah, but that's all analogous to a chaotic city on the Material Plane. This is the Epitome of Chaos. This spurns Order by it's very definition, and order is one of the defining characteristics of a city, as I understand the term.

Just having agreed upon rules for how everyone can exist close together, a system to exchange goods that are produced, and the distribution and claims on property/posessions strike me as bare minimum for an urban environment. How do you do that with Slaad for neighbors?

It's true, I may indeed be close minded, in that it's outside my comprehension. Perhaps another person can imagine a structure that works. I'm willing to admit limited thinking and ignorance.

 

[RealMarkP]

Shra'kt'lor: This is the githzerai's largest city, with a population approaching 2,000,000. This Metropolis is primarily a military stronghold, designed to be the race's final defensive point should their enemies invade. A fighter/wizard general called the Zaerith Menyar-Ag-Gith, or simply the Great Githzerai, rules the city and is revered as a deity-king.


The city is an austere place with massive iron gatehouses piercing seven concentric rings of high, thick granite walls. Quarters inside the city are rather cramped, though an open market is broad and filled with produce grown on stabilized earth as well as other items mundane and wondrous.


Inside the city, order is kept by the companies of the king's army. Outside the city walls, the Foreign Brigade, a band of mercenaries in the pay of the Great Githzerai, keeps the quarter from general rowdiness. Of course, many of the brigade and some of the guardsmen are not above taking bribes now and again.


The city has a considerable amount of trade from all forms of merchants. Large purchases draw the attention of the army and those that get caught are lucky to leave with limbs intact. What cannot be found, however, is entertainment. The city is rather grim, and its shadow falls firmly on the foreign quarter, casting a pall on public displays of levity there as well [Think of Communist Russia]. The only form of intellectual stimulation is the torrents of gossip that plague the city.

I consolidated this information from the Manual of the Planes and TSR 2603 - Planes of Chaos. So, the city in itself is a lawful place, as are all other Githzerai cities. Anarchs impose order over the forces of the plane in order to create a place to live.

I was thinking since the city is so large and void of detail would make it a perfect place to run a Ptolus or Freeport setting. The only difference is that Shra'kt'lor is built more like Minas Tirith, in that each district is a concentric circle overlooking the lower district. Port cities are generally spread out wide into the countryside.

What RUMBLETiGER may be thinking of are the cities unprotected by Anarch, such as the Spawning stone. The Slaadi thrive in the chaos and have no need for protection from the elements. The way I envisioned Limbo is like an asteroid field, but in addition to stone chunks floating about, there are balls of fire, blobs of water, and severe gusts of wind.

I'd like to extend an invitation to comment on my thoughts on this plane (and some custom rules). Here is the link to my google doc. You may comment on whatever you wish. Once the document is generally done, I'll lock it down and make it public for viewing.

 

[Dozen]

Well, yeah, but that's all analogous to a chaotic city on the Material Plane. This is the Epitome of Chaos. This spurns Order by it's very definition, and order is one of the defining characteristics of a city, as I understand the term.

Just having agreed upon rules for how everyone can exist close together, a system to exchange goods that are produced, and the distribution and claims on property/posessions strike me as bare minimum for an urban environment. How do you do that with Slaad for neighbors?

It's true, I may indeed be close minded, in that it's outside my comprehension. Perhaps another person can imagine a structure that works. I'm willing to admit limited thinking and ignorance.

Okay, now you're just too hard on yourself. I fancy myself an expert on alignment, as you know. And I can tell you're right. Ultimate entropy should not change no matter what you do. But here's the thing: Neither Limbo or the Abyss is the Epitome of Chaos - that's outside the Abyss. Both can be shaped and permanently so, but the intelligent essence beyond the Infinite Layers bows to no one, not for a moment. It's incomprehensible and entropic to the point where Demons themselves run for their lives when they so much as catch a glimpse of it. A mere imitation shreds a weak will into rags. Ironically, that pure entropy is what also makes Demons predictable, while we can never know for sure what a Slaad or a Githzerai is up to.
You are forgiven to think that Limbo is the source of ultimate Chaos, but not only it never was, it didn't even exist yet when Chaos already thrived some planes downwards(that's not it's first source, by the way). Chaos in pure form is always tainted by evil, just as law in pure form is always tainted by good. It's their natural state, because to them, morality doesn't exists. Law came to be for the betterment of the world of D&D, while chaos can only destroy. These are respectively the only things they should be capable of. CG a LE people only twist them to their purposes. First, out of chaos spawns order by chance; imposed order brings the concept of compassion, order is corrupted by malice, and goodwill turns to freedom to oppose it, as it is written in the Pact(at least belief says so, and belief is the neutronium golem in the playground).
Thus Chaotic Neutral planes and creatures are not the epitomes(the black slaad description's writer was a little hazy on the origins of the cozmology), they are tempered with a conscience, or at least, in the slaadi's case, enough apathy for destruction to not do it all the time. They are not allergic to order and goodness(which is normally orderly) like demons are, because they don't feel the need to destroy what they oppose driven by their chaotic nature. Slaadi don't have a nature. The absence of it makes them Chaotic by proxy. They don't feel the need for anything. They do what they please, their opinions and decisions unnaffected by peer pressure or other's will, as the phantasmal magics, the will of the people who want them to be what they are, that spawned the Outer Planes(and by extension, the Slaadi) protect them from both. They are basically what chaos would be if we forced it into a vacuum.

In short, if they want a city, they will damn well build a city, and they are so chaotic, they won't give a damn when you tell them chaotics weren't supposed to do orderly stuff.

 

[Celebrim]

I'll post some of my 1st edition notes on the plane when I get home tonight.