D&D 4E If 4e went in this direction...

[Matt James]

Hmmm ... Eliminating races, classes, paragon paths, epic destinies, feats, multiclassing/hybrid classes, etc ... and universally replacing them all with themes.

Well, as a long-time D&D fan, I wouldn't take away classes as the foundation of the game's design philosophy. The D&D feel would still need to apply and there are some things that need to stay (Saving Throws, Classes, etc...)

 

[Matt James]

But the problem is that some characters are completelly flavorless until they hit PP. Blood Mage come to mind.

...and now you are seeing why I emphasis themes so much. They are an easily implemented addition to a character that vastly improves flavor from the start

An entire party can consist of the same class yet be unique in different ways. Themes are gold.

 

[ggroy]

Well, as a long-time D&D fan, I wouldn't take away classes as the foundation of the game's design philosophy. The D&D feel would still need to apply and there are some things that need to stay (Saving Throws, Classes, etc...)

I too would be reluctant to give up some D&D remaining "sacred cows" like races and classes.

If one eliminated classes altogether, the game would start to resemble something else like Runequest or Mutants & Masterminds.

 

[Matt James]

I too would be reluctant to give up some D&D remaining "sacred cows" like races and classes.

If one eliminated classes altogether, the game would start to resemble something like Runequest or Mutants & Masterminds.

Correct. As the scope of this discussion is in regards to improving D&D 4e, there are certain sub-systems of the game that I would not want to get rid of. Even if they don't work well, I would rather find ways to improve upon them verse removing them completely.

 

[ggroy]

Are there any previous rpg games (or even video games) which used a theme type mechanic?

 

[triqui]

...and now you are seeing why I emphasis themes so much. They are an easily implemented addition to a character that vastly improves flavor from he start

An entire party can consist of the same class yet be unique in different ways. Themes are gold.

Bolded the best part. They are so modular that you can use them, or not use them at all, without wrecking anything else in the system. It's just pure gold

 

[Matt James]

I use the term theme as it is easy to understand in the context of 4e. As far as other RPGs? I'm sure there is, and some come close. CBT come to mind, whereby it uses a core medium that can be altered by applying additional layers (pilots, additional weaponry/armor, equipment). Regardless of the layers, the core remains viable. There are other examples, but I can't think of them off the top of my head. The benefits of comparing them would be minimal as D&D has a rather unique core mechanic.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Are there any previous rpg games (or even video games) which used a theme type mechanic?

In Dragon Age, you have a class, then at level 7 and 14 (I think) you can choose a specialization. That class gives you new powers and traits to choose from that augment your base class. For example, a Warrior might pick up the Templar specialization and gain abilities to help him fight spell casters or he might pick up Berserker and gain abilities that send him into a rage.

 

[Matt James]

Bolded the best part. They are so modular that you can use them, or not use them at all, without wrecking anything else in the system. It's just pure gold

Yep. As soon as I saw themes in the DSCG, I knew it was the best answer (notice I did not say perfect. Perfection is neither important nor welcome in a roleplaying game. That's where cookie-cutting begins).

 

[triqui]

I too would be reluctant to give up some D&D remaining "sacred cows" like races and classes.

However, that does not mean you can't change the way those things are implemented. The fighter class in 4e does not follow the same implementation that in BECMI. And a "race theme" could be a way to implement race. Just don't make race an "optional" theme