If a kaiju really emerged

[Janx]

...snip science ...
Yep. But we thought they were impossible on biological grounds, not on physical ones.

Could we back the truck up and confirm that everybody's talking about the same scale of monsters?

I haven't seen Pacific Rim. I assume the traditional Tokyo destroying monster is about the size of a Dinosaur (t-rex or allosaurus or whatever the big scary predator is called this week).

Clearly, we can get Dinosaur sized monsters that biology and physics can agree could exist (because they did).

So are Kaiju assumed to be even larger than a really big dinosaur? Or should we assume when somebody says Kaiju, they mean something big like a dinosaur that is totally possible?

If the former, then of course we enter the mystery physics land of "that's not possible to exist, so if it does, it is extra harder to kill because there's more complex materials at play.

If the latter, then as we learned in Marvel Ultimate Alliance, nothing is immune to bullets. A modern military most likely has the ordnance to take out a dinosaur-like monster be it 50cal rounds, missiles from jet airplanes or bombs from bombers. Given that a man can throw a harpoon and penetrate a whale's thick skin, the upper end of our weaponry can pierce and kill darn near any biological entity.

 

[Morrus]

Why the talks about nukes?
Some simple anti ship missiles would be enough to kill something like that (or torpedoes when still in the water). At worst, a cruise missile.

I disagree that anti-ship missiles would hurt a magic physics-breaking monster. Not unless the anti-ship missiles were also allowed to break the laws of physics.

 

[Grumpy RPG Reviews]

We build *static* structures that are larger...

Umbran is correct. It is also important even large, mobile battle structures - the super carriers - are not designed to take a pounding and shrug it off the way a kaiju does. Modern battleships do not smash into one another until one sinks, they employ aircraft, missiles and similar weapons. Yet kaiju give and taken tremendous physical punishment before dying. This is in addition to simply wandering around down-town Tokyo.

I still say nations would use kaiju as an excuse to launch preemptive nuclear attacks on other nations and would attempt to direct the monsters at rivals.

 

[Janx]

Why the talks about nukes?
Some simple anti ship missiles would be enough to kill something like that (or torpedoes when still in the water). At worst, a cruise missile.

I agree. The assumption that monsters are made out of anti-weapons material is always dubious and usually a plot device by the GM to force you to find the one secret vulnerability of the monster.

But this invulnerability is also what's used to make fighter pilots with an arsenal of long range weapons devolve their fight into short range pecking like an angry bird chasing a child away from its nest, that usually involves in dead airplane.

 

[Derren]

I disagree that anti-ship missiles would hurt a magic physics-breaking monster. Not unless the anti-ship missiles were also allowed to break the laws of physics.

Only because it is larger than is could be doesn't mean its invulnerable to weapons. As people said, the firepower (and range) of conventional weapons gets vastly downplayed in such movies.

Could we back the truck up and confirm that everybody's talking about the same scale of monsters?

I haven't seen Pacific Rim. I assume the traditional Tokyo destroying monster is about the size of a Dinosaur (t-rex or allosaurus or whatever the big scary predator is called this week).

Clearly, we can get Dinosaur sized monsters that biology and physics can agree could exist (because they did).

So are Kaiju assumed to be even larger than a really big dinosaur? Or should we assume when somebody says Kaiju, they mean something big like a dinosaur that is totally possible?

If the former, then of course we enter the mystery physics land of "that's not possible to exist, so if it does, it is extra harder to kill because there's more complex materials at play.

If the latter, then as we learned in Marvel Ultimate Alliance, nothing is immune to bullets. A modern military most likely has the ordnance to take out a dinosaur-like monster be it 50cal rounds, missiles from jet airplanes or bombs from bombers. Given that a man can throw a harpoon and penetrate a whale's thick skin, the upper end of our weaponry can pierce and kill darn near any biological entity.

Haven't seen it either, but apparently thats what people are talking about.
http://www.deviantart.com/art/Category-VI-390546699

 

[Janx]

Haven't seen it either, but apparently thats what people are talking about.
http://www.deviantart.com/art/Category-VI-390546699

And that's pretty big. I don't know how big that is compared to a dinosaur.

But if giant rock'em sock'em robots can be built to fight these hand to hand, then giant high-tech guns and missiles can be built to take them out at a distance at probably a fraction of the cost. We can propel a projectile made of Unobtanium with more force and accuracy at a Kaiju than the force generated by a punch from a mecha made of Unobtainium.

So I call BS.

The next Kaiju invasion will be turned back by heavy duty modern existing weaponry. If that somehow fails due to their improbably superior physiology, then better bullets and missiles will be invented and launched in the same way their current counterparts are. We are not going to invent giant mecha and overcome extra engineering problems to make that a reality, when the key problem can be solved with better bullets.

 

[Morrus]

Only because it is larger than is could be doesn't mean its invulnerable to weapons.

Doesn't mean it isn't, either. We're breaking the laws of physics. I guess you can pick and choose which laws of physics you want to apply to this particular impossible monster, in which case the question of whether conventional weapons can hurt it pretty much becomes: I guess, if you want them to; or not, if you don't.

Attempted application of logic to what is essentially magic feels like a rather fruitless exercise, though.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I can just see a kaiju version of Jaws in my head...and applicable quotes.

Chief: "We're going to need a bigger Mecha..."



Mayor: "I don't think either of one you are familiar with our problems."
Scholar: "I think that I am familiar with the fact that you are going to ignore this particular problem until it swims up and STEPS ON YOUR CITY HALL!"


Kaiju Hunter: "Julius H Geist, when I was a boy, every little squirt wanted to be a harpooner or a sword fisherman. What d'ya have there - a portable shower or a monkey cage?"
Scholar: "Anti-Kaiju Superweapon."
Kaiju Hunter: "Anti-Kaiju Superweapon- you go inside it?"
[Scholar nods]
Kaiju Hunter: "Superweapon goes in the water, you go in the water. Kaiju's in the water. Our kaiju.
[sings] Farewell and adieu to you, fair Spanish ladies. Farewell and adieu, you ladies of Spain. For we've received orders for to sail back to Boston. And so nevermore shall we see you again."

 

[Bullgrit]

Could we back the truck up and confirm that everybody's talking about the same scale of monsters?

I haven't seen Pacific Rim. I assume the traditional Tokyo destroying monster is about the size of a Dinosaur (t-rex or allosaurus or whatever the big scary predator is called this week).

Pacific Rim kaiju, Godzilla, the Cloverfield monster, Stay-Puft Marshmellow man, etc. vary quite a bit in size, but generally, a ballpark figure, could be, for the sake of getting on the same scale, about 300 feet/100 meters tall. 30 stories tall. (This is the figure given in Pacific Rim.) And throughout most movies, they seem to have similar power/destructive strength and endurance.

Here's the science.

My argument is not with the science, but with the position that kaiju *must break* physics, and therefore we can't really discuss what ifs because all physical laws must be tossed out to even imagine such a creature. It's sort of like saying, because a rocket ship can't actually reach the speed of light, we can't really discuss what happens in a rocket ship traveling at the speed of light. Because a rocket ship traveling at lightspeed breaks all physical laws, who knows what could happen in such a situation?

And yes, I understand how the science works with ships and buildings, and how they are fundamentally different than kaiju. My point was/is that we, humans, have figured out how to build immense things that were once impossible, but we figured out how to work within physical laws. Can't we imagine, for the sake of a discussion, that maybe mother nature could figure out how to do something like a kaiju while still within physical laws. Mother nature is pretty wiley when it comes to making the impossible possible.

Haven't we had discussions on zombies? Without someone saying, well who knows what weapons would work to kill a zombie, because zombies are magical.

Bullgrit

 

[Bullgrit]

Dannyalcatraz -- that was the most amazing thing I've read in a good while. You win this thread.

(Can't give you more xp yet.)

Bullgrit