D&D General If faith in yourself is enough to get power, do we need Wizards and Warlocks etc?

[TwoSix]

I think that is a a question of preference.

Yes. At their core, every narrative the game presents are going to come down to a question of whether or not you want to accept them. If you like it, you'll rationalize why it works; if you don't, you'll rationalize your dislike.

The "Wizard picture" ongoing thread is a fantastic example of 1000s of posts doing just that.

 

[TwoSix]

By that definition, anyone legitimately swearing a similar oath would receive similar power. My warlock could swear such an oath. Do they suddenly get smites and proficiency with martial weapons and armor?

Nope. In core 5e, they’d immediately get proficiency with martial weapons and medium armor. The smiting has to wait until they’re slightly more experienced.

Although in core 5e, it’s worth noting that the definition of a paladin isn’t purely oath-based. Armor, weapons, 1st level
Spellcasting and smiting are all available oath-free.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Nope. In core 5e, they’d immediately get proficiency with martial weapons and medium armor. The smiting has to wait until they’re slightly more experienced.

Although in core 5e, it’s worth noting that the definition of a paladin isn’t purely oath-based. Armor, weapons, 1st level
Spellcasting and smiting are all available oath-free.

Cute, but there are definitely paladin-only class features, like Lay on Hands, you get from level 1. And apparently all it takes is to make an oath and to really mean it.

 

[TwoSix]

Cute, but there are definitely paladin-only class features, like Lay on Hands, you get from level 1. And apparently all it takes is to make an oath and to really mean it.

Actually, it doesn’t even take that, since the paladin doesn’t need an Oath till level 3.

The diegetic space the level 1-2 paladin takes up in core 5e is actually really interesting.

 

[CreamCloud0]

By that definition, anyone legitimately swearing a similar oath would receive similar power. My warlock could swear such an oath. Do they suddenly get smites and proficiency with martial weapons and armor?

it makes sense to me that the power from an oath would scale with their adherence to the principles of the oath and the duration they've maintained it, just swearing an oath wont get you anything the moment you vow it, you've got to dedicate yourself to it and maintain it for a good while before you start getting stuff out of it.

 

[Voadam]

By that definition, anyone legitimately swearing a similar oath would receive similar power. My warlock could swear such an oath. Do they suddenly get smites and proficiency with martial weapons and armor?

Isn't that exactly how you would narratively multiclass into a default 5e PH Paladin? A mystical oath to become a champion of Righteousness and your level up is as a level of paladin?

 

[Micah Sweet]

it makes sense that the power from an oath would scale with their adherence to the principles of the oath and the duration they've maintained it, just swearing an oath wont get you anything the moment you vow it, you've got to dedicate yourself to it and maintain it before you start getting stuff out of it.

As I have just been reminded, apparently you can get all the features of a level 2 paladin without doing much of anything at all, as the oath only goes into supernatural effect once you choose a subclass at level 3. Not sure what the explanation for that could possibly be, other than, "it's a game".

 

[Micah Sweet]

Isn't that exactly how you would narratively multiclass into a default 5e PH Paladin? A mystical oath to become a champion of Righteousness and your level up is as a level of paladin?

Yeah. Again, the oath as the sole source of power is full of logical holes.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

They get access to powers that only other people get, who go into servitude to a god. And how? By being full if themselves.

That actually describes most paladins really well!

But yeah, I don't like it metaphysically. In my setting the power of paladins ultimately comes from the gods.

 

[Voadam]

Actually, it doesn’t even take that, since the paladin doesn’t need an Oath till level 3.

The diegetic space the level 1-2 paladin takes up in core 5e is actually really interesting.

Actually according to the PH I think it does take an oath to become a first level paladin.

"Becoming a paladin involves taking vows that commit the paladin to the cause of righteousness, an active path of fighting wickedness. The final oath, taken when he or she reaches 3rd level, is the culmination of all the paladin's training."

The 3rd level one is the Final Oath, not the First Oath.