If you could study Game Design

[Shemeska]

I'd be really interested in seeing what degree(s) most designers out there got before working in the RPG industry.

Most of the authors I've known or met never had a degree in any liberal arts field, but had degrees and jobs in other fields and wrote on the side to ensure they weren't starving artists, so to speak. If the writing got successful enough to support them by itself, they started doing that full time.

But just my advice, when you're in college, plan for a degree that you enjoy but that will give you access to a good job out of the gate, rather than something that's a relatively hard thing to break into, be it script writing or full-time game design. Of the people I've gamed with over the last five years, there's a big difference in lifestyle between the programmers/engineers/scientists, and the english majors. I don't mean to be mean, but especially in a tight economy, it's probably wiser to snag something more immediately applicable to landing a job right out of school.

 

[pawsplay]

But just my advice, when you're in college, plan for a degree that you enjoy but that will give you access to a good job out of the gate, rather than something that's a relatively hard thing to break into, be it script writing or full-time game design. Of the people I've gamed with over the last five years, there's a big difference in lifestyle between the programmers/engineers/scientists, and the english majors. I don't mean to be mean, but especially in a tight economy, it's probably wiser to snag something more immediately applicable to landing a job right out of school.

Um.... So you're saying, study English? I'm not sure I get your point, a lot of tech fields are in contraction right now. But I get the impression English was supposed to the "impactical" choice. English is a very useful degree. Journalism, management, grad school in multiple fields, technical writing, substitute teaching, running for the school board, tutoring, test preparation, etc. Or, for that matter, programming; you don't need a degree, or even a class, to learn programming.

 

[pawsplay]

A lot of the philosophy, Improvisational theater, ethics and classes such as that are interesting to think about but they don't handle the base problems of being a true game designer which I feel is being able to tap creativity.

If you haven't done theater, you are seriously missing out. As for ethics and philosophy, these are not dry topics. I may not be able to talk you into this, but in my view, you would gain a lot more from an ethics class than the creative writing classes offered by most universities. That's the stuff life is made of. Creativity isn't magic pixie dust, it's something that takes knowledge and inspiration.


Besides the statistical side of games isn't really complicated as anyone with half a brain can understand the systems mathematical base if they take five minutes to really think about it.

I'm going to disagree because I have a good deal of respect for game designers who've made some really bad designs. In two minutes, I could have explained to the designers of original Shadowrun why Personal Combat Sense always made you a worse fighter, or to the Savage Worlds folks that they're exploding die mechanic made a d4 better than a d6 right around one of their most common difficulty numbers. Then there's the infamous White Wolf Storyteller 1e thing, where more dice meant more botches. I could solve these problems in five minutes, but I've had a fair amount of math. If YOU can solve those problems in five minutes, maybe you don't need the course. But statistics is a good class for anybody, even so.

 

[mmadsen]

Besides the statistical side of games isn't really complicated as anyone with half a brain can understand the systems mathematical base if they take five minutes to really think about it.

I'm going to disagree because I have a good deal of respect for game designers who've made some really bad designs. In two minutes, I could have explained to the designers of original Shadowrun why Personal Combat Sense always made you a worse fighter, or to the Savage Worlds folks that they're exploding die mechanic made a d4 better than a d6 right around one of their most common difficulty numbers. Then there's the infamous White Wolf Storyteller 1e thing, where more dice meant more botches. I could solve these problems in five minutes, but I've had a fair amount of math. If YOU can solve those problems in five minutes, maybe you don't need the course. But statistics is a good class for anybody, even so.

Well said. Further, game systems are systems. They tend to have many connected parts, and small changes in one place tend to have unintended consequences somewhere else. Game designers should probably have experience with computer simulations, even if they're not going to be designing computer games, so they can develop an intuition about this.

 

[Nifft]

Game designers should probably have experience with computer simulations, even if they're not going to be designing computer games, so they can develop an intuition about this.

Screw "intuition". They should have the ability to simulate their system. The study of many technical fields, including Statistics, include writing simulations of stuff.

Computer Science or Fluid Dynamics would also do the job, but many of the other parts would be less applicable.

Cheers, -- N

 

[The Red Priest]

The best way to learn game design is to play games. Lots of 'em. All types of games, too. All the RPGs you can find, miniatures, board games, everything!

It doesn't hurt if you play war games for a couple of decades and then sell insurance for a living either.

Don't quit your day job and don't give anyone money to tell you how to write a game.

 

[Modin Godstalker]

Don't waste your time in college not getting a utilitarian degree. You will regret it if you don't. It might seem like fun now, but when you are in your 30's and you just don't have any technical skills to get a decent paying job and you don't have the energy to go back to school, you will be thinking why the hell did I major in game design.

You can always double major. Pick a utilitarian degree (like engineering) along with a fun degree like creative writing.

You can always go back and take more "fun courses" later on. And think you won't be making minimum wage at a coffee shop.

I have degrees in Anthropology, and Studio Art (drawing and painting). Those types of degrees don't put food on the table. I was lucky enough to some how get myself into a technical job. I'm not sure how I was able to do that. If I could do it over again, I would have gotten an additional engineering degree or at least a 2 year technical degree on top of what I did. I would have ditched the Anthropology.

In the end, especially when you are starting out, the degree does matter. Human Resource departments will screen out your resume, guaranteed. For creative jobs such as art, music and creative writing, I'm not sure why anyone would care if you had a degree. They would want to see your portfolio of work. That is going to tell them a lot more about you than a degree.

So I'm in college and have the fortunate opportunity to build my program the way I want to. I'm only restricted by NY state SUNY guide lines and the colleges area of study guidelines. I'm a Creative Writing major but my focus and concentration is on Game Design and writing for the industry. Right now in my degree program I have listed several classes that don't exist anywhere that I know of. They are:

The History of Role Playing Games
Theory of Game Design
Creative Writing: Fantasy

Creative Writing: Fantasy is the form and structure of writing adventures, settings, and supplemental materials.

I'm wondering if any of you game designers out there who work as freelancers have any ideas about classes you wished they offered you when you were in school. Even any ideas for books, message boards or even possible teachers for me. I've already asked Mr. Louge and he said he was interested, I'm just not sure how much time he has. There's also this whole qualification process which I just found out about. I have to see how that works too. Anyways if anyone has any information or ideas I'd love to hear them.

I know it's always been a freelance industry for the most part to break into but I feel maybe it shouldn't always be that way. The industry is over 30 years old now and maybe there should be some people who have degrees in these things. I know people have degrees in Game Theory but now it probably time to start exploring this industry in a similar fashion.

Thanks for any ideas.
Chris

P.S. My school is Empire State College and it is an accredited SUNY school of NY State. Check it out if you live in NY and want to go back to school. It's geared for adult learners who have a life and can't always sit in classes. It'll change the way you think about the college learning experience.

 

[Blackwind]

Korgoth said: "I'd also avoid anything about Freud, Jung or comparative religion because in general they're the exact opposite of education."

With all due respect... what?

I would advise exactly the opposite. The religious studies courses I took as an undergrad were some of the most authentically educational learning experiences I've had. And especially since you want to write fantasy and make RPG products... studying religion, mythology, and depth psychology (Freud, Jung, von Franz, Hillman) will give you an education in the labyrinthine ways of the human imagination. What could be more important, given your career goals?

I would especially recommend Man and His Symbols as a good introduction to Jungian thought. I would also recommend The Language of the Night by Ursula LeGuin (essays on fantasy literature with some reference to Jungian concepts) and Fantasy: The Liberation of the Imagination by Richard Matthews.

By the way, your program sounds excellent. As a student at Goddard College (in Vermont), where I write my own syllabus every semester, I have some experience with individualized degree programs and am happy to see more cropping up. Cheers!

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Please for the love of all that is good and awesome in the world:

Take a course in Technical Communication.

I'd recommend manuals and, of course, editting, but even a theory based course like Technology and Literacy should be helpful.

On a basic level this is a skill not unrelated to what you are already doing, supremely helpful toward that editting masters, and an education that anyone working in game design - which eventually boils down to publishing the most awesome sort of manuals - should at least be familiar with.

I'd also back up anthropology.

Of course, any of the above could be awful - so so much depends on the right teacher in the right semester - but in terms of degree planning I feel pretty competent recommending the above.

 

[The Red Priest]

Please for the love of all that is good and awesome in the world:

Take a course in Technical Communication.

I'd recommend manuals and, of course, editting, but even a theory based course like Technology and Literacy should be helpful.

On a basic level this is a skill not unrelated to what you are already doing, supremely helpful toward that editting masters, and an education that anyone working in game design - which eventually boils down to publishing the most awesome sort of manuals - should at least be familiar with.

Absofrigginlutely!!!

I don't think anyone that's designed a successful game, or game supplement, had a degree in game design before designing (now watch somebody come up with an example!!), and I doubt that any have one now either.

That said, a degree is a good thing to have for modern life in general, and to back up Strangemonkey, Oh For The Love of God, Don't Just Take A Good Technical Writing Course, But Pour Your Heart Into It.

And for the record, it's rogue, Rogue, ROGUE already!!!