Illusion Power Inconsistencies

[Maximillian]

I'm not especially happy with these new illusion powers from Dragon.

1. Why are there powers for which a hit and a miss cause the power to have differing durations? (i.e. Phantom Chasm causing a target to be immobilized until the end of its next turn if you hit, but until the end of your next turn if you miss. They're immobilized longer if you miss!)
2. Similarly, powers which cause differing durations depending on whether the target was hit by the power, or if they entered into the area after the power was activated. (i.e. Grasping Shadows: target is slowed until the end of your next turn if you hit it with the power, causing it to be slowed for one turn, and slowed until the end of its next turn if it enters the area, meaning two turns in which the creature is slowed. This power also lacks a clause about creatures starting their turns in the area, which is also fairly inconsistent with other powers of this type.)
3. Lastly, I definitely feel that the Spectral Hound power should have the Conjuration keyword, putting it in line with the Bigby's powers, and Flaming Sphere.

This is exactly what I worry about. The tightened, rapid fire descriptions of powers do what they're supposed to: provide a lot of interesting options on less page space. Unfortunately, they also leave a lot of ambiguity, and require a lot more attention to detail in their creation. This article has a lot of possibilities, but leaves me wondering.

 

[Nebulous]

This is exactly what I worry about. The tightened, rapid fire descriptions of powers do what they're supposed to: provide a lot of interesting options on less page space. Unfortunately, they also leave a lot of ambiguity, and require a lot more attention to detail in their creation. This article has a lot of possibilities, but leaves me wondering.

I don't have an answer, but i've had the same concerns. Given the nature of rpg gamers, and the extensive abuse that we put rules through, i was also concerned that the vagueness of some 4e powers would leave loopholes.

 

[Nikosandros]

I don't have an answer, but i've had the same concerns. Given the nature of rpg gamers, and the extensive abuse that we put rules through, i was also concerned that the vagueness of some 4e powers would leave loopholes.

A great deal of powers seem to suffer from this...

 

[Cryptos]

I'm not especially happy with these new illusion powers from Dragon.

1. Why are there powers for which a hit and a miss cause the power to have differing durations? (i.e. Phantom Chasm causing a target to be immobilized until the end of its next turn if you hit, but until the end of your next turn if you miss. They're immobilized longer if you miss!)
2. Similarly, powers which cause differing durations depending on whether the target was hit by the power, or if they entered into the area after the power was activated. (i.e. Grasping Shadows: target is slowed until the end of your next turn if you hit it with the power, causing it to be slowed for one turn, and slowed until the end of its next turn if it enters the area, meaning two turns in which the creature is slowed. This power also lacks a clause about creatures starting their turns in the area, which is also fairly inconsistent with other powers of this type.)
3. Lastly, I definitely feel that the Spectral Hound power should have the Conjuration keyword, putting it in line with the Bigby's powers, and Flaming Sphere.

This is exactly what I worry about. The tightened, rapid fire descriptions of powers do what they're supposed to: provide a lot of interesting options on less page space. Unfortunately, they also leave a lot of ambiguity, and require a lot more attention to detail in their creation. This article has a lot of possibilities, but leaves me wondering.

3) Spectral Hound isn't really there. "...appears in a square you designate within range. The Spectral Hound does not occupy that square...." If it's not really there, then you haven't conjured anything.

2, 1) The effect doesn't necessarily last longer. That depends entirely on the initiative order. And because it can't actually do anything on its turn either way (its next turn or your next turn), but can stand back up and take actions on its following turn, it turns out its a wash. Effectively, the target has lost its turn, having spent it prone and immobilized, screaming at the floor and flailing around in terror. If you're following initiative order ultimately it doesn't matter if it happens at the end of his turn or the end of your turn, he still lost a round.

The wording is weird, but it should come out about the same. There might be some action point weirdness or interrupt and instant reaction weirdness this way, however. If there is say, a leader that allows the target to take a move action on the leader's turn, and the initiative is: Illlusionist, target monster, leader, illusionist - then the target monster has the effect end at the end of its turn, could stand up on the leader's turn, and then it's the illusionist's turn. But in almost any other case, he's lost exactly one turn and begins the next one prone.

 

[Aria Silverhands]

The more I see inconsistent crap like this... the more I'm inclined to make my own set of classes for my campaign totally from scratch.

 

[Maximillian]

If it's not really there, then you haven't conjured anything.

Well, you also can't attack a flaming sphere or effect it in any way. Both are spells that summon an invincible object that has an effect in combat. One can be negated by a Dispel Magic and the other cannot.

The effect doesn't necessarily last longer.

Actually, it does. If the effect lasts until the end of your next turn, they are prone and immobilized longer, meaning they continue to suffer the penalties of these conditions during the actions of your allies who act after the target but before you. This isn't such a big deal in the case of being Prone, as Prone specifically requires you to take an action to stand, but it's sloppy wording, and I'd like to think we should expect better. If the condition were Dazed or Stunned, it would indeed cause penalties that matter.

Also, now that I think about it, Prone and Immobilized doesn't stop the creature from attacking adjacent enemies... which is really weird. Not impossible, but weird.

 

[Plane Sailing]

This is exactly what I worry about. The tightened, rapid fire descriptions of powers do what they're supposed to: provide a lot of interesting options on less page space. Unfortunately, they also leave a lot of ambiguity, and require a lot more attention to detail in their creation. This article has a lot of possibilities, but leaves me wondering.

The concept of the powers allows for a lot of precision in defining what they do and when and how.

Unfortunately the illusion powers examples show how easy it is to stuff things up by not being *really careful* when writing new powers.

The themes are nice, but the details are shocking in some of these examples.

Cheers

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

I don't have an answer, but i've had the same concerns. Given the nature of rpg gamers, and the extensive abuse that we put rules through, i was also concerned that the vagueness of some 4e powers would leave loopholes.

Part of this is because they're trying to step back from the rules-lawyerish minutia of 3e and re-emphasize Rule Zero.

 

[Mort_Q]

To be fair...

To be fair, Phantom Chasm causes a victim to immobilized and prone until the end of its next turn if you hit, and just immobilized, albeit until the end of your next turn, if you miss.

Prone in exchange for duration? Seems fair.

 

[Maximillian]

Part of this is because they're trying to step back from the rules-lawyerish minutia of 3e and re-emphasize Rule Zero.

I find that a pretty compelling argument until I remember that I play with not only some rules-lawyers, but also some actual lawyers. The RAW are a kind of a pact. Every time an exception comes up, it's like making an agreement between all folks at the table that a change should be made. The DM isn't meant to be in charge, agreements have to be mutual. Every time something is poorly worded, it's a hassle.

YMMV, of course.