Illusions: So you failed your saving throw...

[Hypersmurf]

He could, but if he took an illusionary hit, he'd take illusionary damage. That damage can stack up and cause the character to go unconscious (like subdual damage) or possibly have a heart attack and die. That's how I've always played it from 1st edition to now.

Not according to the rules in 3E or 3.5, though.

Because figments and glamers (see below) are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. They cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding or delaying foes, but useless for attacking them directly.

-Hyp.

 

[Malimar]

Not according to the rules in 3E or 3.5, though.

Because figments and glamers (see below) are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. They cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding or delaying foes, but useless for attacking them directly.

-Hyp.

Dang... you're right. I never noticed that, and I've been playing closer to 1E and 2E rules. Then I guess Mitch, our theoretical weak-Willed friend, would be suspicious, and if he could just go around the orc which he sees in front of him. Since he never takes damage, he'll probably just be slowed down for a round or two.

Personally, I'd rather have illusions be more dangerous. Illusionary damage can go away as soon as the victim disbelieves. It gives the DM and PC's a lot more creative options.

 

[IanB]

Well - there are options for illusion school spells to do real damage; they just have to be of the illusion (shadow) type.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Yeah, I remember what illusions were like in 2nd edition, and they were pretty ridiculously powerful, what will all the potential for infinite illusionary fireballs and all...

No, Mitch can't. He failed the save, so his mind and body "believe" that there's an orc there attacking him. With mind over body, if he tried to move through the orc, his body would stop him subconsciously.

See, the thing is, the illusion isn't mind-affecting. It's just a figment, so there's nothing that compels Mitch to behave in any way beyond what he decides to do. If he trusts his party member (for example, if the party member is a Duergar, and immune to illusions), he might decide that the orc has got to be an illusion, and try walking through it. Of course, if it's not actually an illusion (the Duergar party member is known for his practical jokes), that would provoke an attack of opportunity, like a bull rush.

But his mind isn't being overcome by the illusion, just fooled by it. He's not charmed, nor is he compelled. It's exactly as if it were a holographic orc.

If an illusion has no sound, then that might allow another disbelieve check. If the orc attacking Mitch was perfectly silent (down to silent weapons clanging on Mitch's shield), but looked real, he might get another save. Back in 1E/2E when infravision was heat vision, illusions without thermal components wouldn't fool elves in the dark, because they wouldn't see the heat. The elf would get an automatic or additional save.

This, again, is not supported by the rules. You're either fooled, or you're not. You get one save, when you interact with the illusion. You get a second chance, at +4, if someone goes "it's an illusion!" If that second save is failed (and we're assuming Mitch fails it), it doesn't matter if the illusion makes noise or not, because Mitch isn't going to notice. It gives no indication that a silent orc gives you a circumstance bonus to your save. Actually, that seems to be included in the difference in saving throws between Minor Image (a first-level spell) and Major Image (which is higher). But, as I pointed out, a Heightened Minor Image has just as much "fooling power" as a Major Image, so it doesn't really seem to matter what the illusion consists of, only that it's a powerful or weak spell.

 

[Lamoni]

True Awkward.
The difference between a heightened minor image and a major image has no significance if the person you are trying to fool can see.

However, what if you want to fool someone that is blind? Someone with scent? Your image would need to have sound and smell. What if you wanted your image to attract enemies from around the corner? You can't do that very well without sound. Adding things other than just visual elements make the illusions usable in more situations.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

True Awkward.
The difference between a heightened minor image and a major image has no significance if the person you are trying to fool can see.

However, what if you want to fool someone that is blind? Someone with scent? Your image would need to have sound and smell. What if you wanted your image to attract enemies from around the corner? You can't do that very well without sound. Adding things other than just visual elements make the illusions usable in more situations.

I suppose there's the long-shot chance that you might want to try to fool a blind person, but that's a long shot. The thing is, if something has scent and it can see, you don't have to fool its scent. You only have to fool its sight, and then it will have a saving throw. It gets no bonus for having scent, and if it fails the saving throw, it is fooled by the illusion.

Note that many things that have a special non-visual sense (grimlocks, for example) are also immune to illusions regardless of how many aspects the illusion covers.