I'm doing some market research ...

[wotmaniac]

... and viability study.
And I would very much appreciate any and all feedback.

Here's the deal -- in a brainstorming session trying to figure out how to generate some supplemental income, I thought that perhaps there might be a market for custom gaming tables (albeit a small one). As I see it, we have basically 3 options for game tables:
1) dropping a grid mat on an existing table
2) the Sultan
3) try to make your own (with infinitely-varying degrees of success/failure).
Surely, there needs to be something for the group that wants a solid, dedicated gaming table, but doesn't want to shell-out $10k.

So, I've got a "prototype", so to speak (read: my untrained attempt at building my own table 3 years ago). I really learned a lot in that process; and have made a few notes over the last 3 years on what I'd do differently. (and the fact that I've since gotten some advice from an actual carpenter couldn't hurt my future endeavors).
For reference, you can see a few pics here, here, and here.

My basic concept, originally, was basically 3 features:
1) sliding drawers
2) full gridded top with wet/dry erase
3) minimal profile, to accommodate adequate leg clearance without having the top set too high
Some basic no/low cost modifications that would need to be made would include:
- deeper drawers (there's barely an inch clearance on the 4 side drawers -- would want to increase that to 2 inches)
- better legs/leg design (it's plenty sturdy enough ... the changes would be for aesthetics)
- wet/dry erase surface covering all the drawers (as-is, it's just the wood)
- dampening the play surface and drawer surfaces (just the wood is pretty loud and has lots of rebound) .... simply placing a piece of fabric between the wood and the mat does wonders.
- aesthetic improvements all around (as-is, since I was making this for just myself, I cared only for functionality -- prettying it up should be fairly simple).
- include a push-pull stick (kinda like what's used at craps tables)
- various battlemat options; e.g., smaller/larger grid, hexes, reversible, etc.

I would be offering several models (most of the variation would be in the size). Sizes would included: 4x4 ; 4x6 (standard model, pictured) ; 4x8 ; 3x5 (for smaller rooms). Varying heights would also be available.

So, what I'm looking for is this:
- general thoughts on design
- other improvements and/or added features (keep in mind, I'm not trying to compete with the Sultan -- I'm aiming for a price point of around $700-$800 for the standard table)
- specific aesthetic improvements
- foreseeable viability at suggested price point.
- possible supplemental products that I could make myself (I've already thought about dice bags; but I'm kinda stuck after that)
I don't expect to be able to quit my job with this (though that would be nice); but if I could average 15-20 orders/year

I've also considered also having just the professional-grade blueprints available (for a price), for the DIY types who just can't be bothered with actually designing such a table, but still want the cost savings of the DIY.
The table would ship fully assembled, except for the legs, which can be easily screwed on in a matter of 2 minutes or less (leg removal would be just as easy, allowing greater flexibility in storage/transport).
If I determine that this is indeed viable, then I'll be making 2-3 more in the near future (perhaps around the first of the year) -- this would serve a couple of purposes: 1) practice refinement, 2) display/promo models. I foresee having the website up and running by March, ready to take orders.

I very much look forward to hearing your thoughts.
This is very much a serious and genuine business venture proposal, so pulling your punches is strictly forbidden.
Thanks.

 

[Mark CMG]

Neat idea.

The table would ship fully assembled, except for the legs, which can be easily screwed on in a matter of 2 minutes or less (leg removal would be just as easy, allowing greater flexibility in storage/transport).

Ship from where?

 

[Stormonu]

Looking at the pictures, felt or fabric mats on the pull-out drawers would probably be a good idea (perhaps with some sort of graphic on them?).

I would personally prefer if the wet/dry mat could somehow be removed for cleaning or replacement (say, it was torn or wore out - or even if I wanted to change from square to hex).

Some way to support those drawers - they don't look like they support the PF corebook and ToH, let alone elbows or a drink. (Speaking of which, the tabletop needs a corner spot or two to rest items on - books, a 2 liter, dice, etc. for those who don't want 2 feet of drawer between them and reaching figures on the table.)

An idea I just had - instead of having a full pull-out drawer that puts so much distance between the players and the table, why not a pull-out/fold-up drawer that fits between the seats? People could store their stuff on these pull-outs and still feel close to the action at the table. And no leaning over the drawer and risking it rolling shut - spilling drinks, pizza, dice and whatnot into your lap or on the floor.

 

[khantroll]

I have to agree with Stormonu; the long pullouts don't work for me. Perhaps one long one between the player stations, or a drop-down/retracting platform would work?

 

[Croesus]

I have to agree with Stormonu; the long pullouts don't work for me. Perhaps one long one between the player stations, or a drop-down/retracting platform would work?

Agreed. They might work if my group has only a couple players, as each player could then use the pullout beside them. But even then, I can easily see someone shifting their chair or getting up for soda and bumping the pullout, knocking everything around. Oh, and these significantly increase the size of the room I need for one of these tables. With all the pullouts in use, won't this take up a minimum of 5' by 7', not counting chairs?

Not sure where I saw it, but the idea that I like best is similar to yours, but not an entire table. It's just a "topper" consisting of the grid on short legs, roughly 4"-6", that can be set on to a table. The legs allow material to be stored under the grid, which doesn't push players further from the table. If you want to design entire tables, you could eliminate the pullouts and elevate the grid.

And I second Stormonu's idea about removable/replaceable grids. In fact, the ability to flip the grid, with squares on one side and hexes on the other, would be very useful and allow easier cleaning.

Lastly, if you plan to sell these, they will have to look good. I realize the images are of a mock-up, so I'm unsure if this is what you intend for the final product. I would suggest it will need to have polished wood, fittings that are hidden or stylish, and so on. That will increase the cost, but otherwise I might as well build something like this myself.

 

[Janx]

On the design:

stormonu's on the right track, I don't need a drawer in front of me, I need a table surface BESIDE me.


My kitchen table is 2.5' x 5'. So are my "church" tables, the folding tables I got for $30 from Office Depot.

You're table sizes are at least 4' on one axis. That's probably too big for anything but a VERY dedicated game room (game shop and they tend to make their own more cheaply).

I assume when you said drawer, that you actually meant a drawer. I propose sliding shelve's instead. They'll be thinner and hopefully easier to make rugged.

Position them between expected player seats (though the ends might be trickier.

I use wooden tv trays to solve this problem, as I prefer my stuff be on the side, and not in the game space.

On the practical side, you've not sold me on the craftsmanship with your words. Folks are going to want to see your best work if they're going spend money rather than limp along with a $30 table from Office Depot.

You'll also want to consider parts and labor costs. My wife gets told she should sell her knitted works, but the cost of the good yarn + labor time puts the price beyond what most people would pay.

I recommend using Minimum Wage as your baseline cost for labor. There's arguments that your time is worth more economically, or less because you're having fun as a hobby. But in the end, if you're going to sell it (or were going to hire a worker to do it on your behalf), MW acts as a good benchmark.

Here's some other ideas if your feeling craftsmanly but looking for something "cheaper":
dice tower/dice pit = a place to roll dice and keep them corralled.
battlemat shelf = something I made, it rests on the normal table, elevates about 1 coke can high, and the battlemat sits on that. Thus, the entire regular surface is available to hold books, drinks, stuff. The shelf would be big enough to hold a smaller (not tiny) battlemat, good enough for encounters.
Scrollcase pencil case = holds gaming pencils, looks like a scrollcase
map case = bigger tube to hold game maps, maybe even the battlemat and pens
leather book covers = I have one that holds 2 gaming books. looks cool, and protects my books.

 

[khantroll]

I think I may have just had a brain blast. Instead of trying to emulate the Sultan drawer style thing, build a popup table. Make the legs a little shorter, and the table a little thicker. Then, have the part with the grid, which would be slightly smaller then the actual size of the table, popup from the table about 4". If everything else is made like a gaming table, you'd have table in front of the players and the DM for books and papers, and maybe a cup holder and dice area if you want to push it.

Stick LED or ribbon wire under there for reading light, and boom! integrated table topper with table places that don't force you as far back from the table.

Am I just way off base, or does anybody think this would be cool? We use a similar setup in the form of a multi-tiered display shelf, but it's thicker and heavier and the two table tops are disproportionately sized. I can take pics of it anyone wants a better idea of what I'm talking about.

 

[Tanstaafl_au]

We have the Monty Haul Gaming Tables tables here as an option. Lower end than the sultan but still very nice. Gaming shop has one.
Look better in person that the bare designs on display....

 

[Dedekind]

How well do the dice roll on that surface?

I for one, could use less grid and more utility surface space. Maybe 15" all around of felt or faux leather for character sheets, dice, and drinks?

 

[Janx]

I finally saw you had links to pics.

the Sultan is big and bulky. Built like a pool table you sit down to. That means reaching in and over to move figs. The bottom bar connecting the legs is going to get feet rested on it, it blocks parking chairs under the table.

Your design is more streamlined, though a big rough looking.

Your sliding shelf thing is what I was talking about.

Point of fact, since each player has one, you can shrink the table size down, as the table will grow with the shelve's expanded.

I which case, I do recommend the 2.5' x 5' form factor for the playing surface, with the shelves used to hold books, and drink. You could do a drop-pin system to keep the shelf from rolling in/out during moving or play. This would reduce drink spillage if I put my coke on the shelf, and then the shelf were bumped.

Fitting 6 players at the table should be good enough for most.

Also consider parking the GM in the center of the table (on a long side), rather than at the end. This gives all players full access to the GM, rather than getting preferential access to the GM by proximity.

With this in mind, the GM side would sit at the center point on the long side, and have a shelf on each side that pulls out to hold his books, dice, laptop. He'd be better able to belly up to the table itself.

For battle mat, consider just doing a solid table surface. The battlemat would be a customer option, embeded, Chessex, maybe a plexiglass sheet with grid on it, so I can slide the map underneath, and dry-erase mark it on top.

I like how you handled the shelves on the ends. The long side shelves rest close against the underside of the table. The end shelves sit below the side shelves, so neither blocks the other.