I'm gonna run The Tomb of Horrors for level 15-17 chars...

[Land Outcast]

I'm gonna use the 3.5 update at WotC, upgrading it to challenge the PCs...

Is it viable to do so?

Anyone converted the ToH for chars of that level approx.?

Any useful advice?

Thanks in advance

 

[Crothian]

They should have a much easier time especially if they know what they are getting into.

 

[Garnfellow]

I think you will have a very, very hard time scaling the module up to those levels because so much of the dungeon is composed of mechanical traps, which -- for a lot of reasons -- are not as threatening for parties above 12th level. Many features would have to be abandoned or rethought completely for high level play.

A radical redesign would be pretty interesting to see, but would be a lot of work.

I ran the Wizards 3.5 update as written for a bunch of pre-gens, and found it was nice and perfectly lethal for the recommended party level. At this point I have had a TPK in at least three editions of the Tomb.

 

[Voadam]

I have found that upgrading modules for higher levels in general works fine, just up the ELs and advance the monsters to a corresponding higher CR to meet your target challenge and it should be fine.

Traps for higher level PCs are a bit tricky because they don't scale up so well for damage without getting ridiculously expensive if you look at the creation costs.

 

[Thomas Percy]

This adventure is deliberate TPK, so there are no levels such high you can't play it.

 

[Celebrim]

Find the Path, as written, is IMO broken and could prove particularly problimatic for 'Tomb of Horrors' especially in combination with a rules lawyer.

For all of its reputation for lethality, many of the traps in ToH are startlingly easy to evade and there is (at least in the original module as written) no proactive presence in the tomb that would thwart PC's from undertaking virtually any sort of plan. Most of the traps in ToH are dependent on gravity in some way or the other, either in its presence or in its absence. A rope of climbing a handful of potions of flight are problimatic in the 1st edition version even in the hands of very low level characters. High level 3rd edition characters can evade many of the challenges simply by flying at all times.

The 3.5 edition rewrite of the tomb lacks much of the elegance and grandeur of the 1st edition version. The valuable metals are only illusions, to prevent looting of the tomb itself. The orginal versions elements to stop brute force approaches to bypassing challenges are largely nerfed. And the monsters, which were generally only minor nuisance in the 1st edition version, are scaled up to be some of the most lethal aspects of the dungeon - which in my opinion renders ToH just another ordinary dungeon.

You can certainly scale up the monsters easily. Scaling up the traps requires a bit more thought and a good deal more work. Gravity traps need to have added (or be replaced by) such things as magical triggers, area dispel magic traps, and 'suction' effects (for example the air in the room disappear, magnetic effects, and so forth) that get around flight.

I'd also suggest reworking the interior a bit, since by this point few gamers are unfamiliar with the module.

 

[PhantomNarrator]

Don't give them an even break

As some others have already pointed out, you need to give serious consideration to the relatively greater resources a high level 3.5 party will have. You will have spellcasters trying to convert the whole dungeon to mud, or use divination and similar magic to work around the deadlier traps. Then there's always the great likelihood that one of your players will already be familiar with some of the surprises.

There's just one important thing to keep in mind when you're redesigning this module - don't give the characters an even break. You must be utterly ruthless and intentionally devious. Your goal is to kill every last member of the party - all of them. Be fair, but be lethal. Most importantly, give long, long thought to how your version of Acererak would deal with a high level party of tomb robbers. Think of it is your home and possessions - how would you deal with presumptuous defilers and intruders if you had the powers of the lich when he was designing his tomb? Do that, then make it even tougher.

Have no pity on them. Anybody trying to rob the tomb deserves what they get.

 

[Land Outcast]

The orginal versions elements to stop brute force approaches to bypassing challenges are largely nerfed.

I'm intrigued by these "elements to stop brute force", any examples from the original version?

I don't think it will be that much of an issue to give the traps enough "oomph" to make them fearsome... of course I'll have to add bursts of dispel magic just before the traps activate (and up DCs, and damage, or go the RBDM way and introduce vile damage, somehow).

 

[thedungeondelver]

For 3.5? They're going to cake walk it.

 

[Thunderfoot]

I think you will have a very, very hard time scaling the module up to those levels because so much of the dungeon is composed of mechanical traps, which -- for a lot of reasons -- are not as threatening for parties above 12th level. Many features would have to be abandoned or rethought completely for high level play.

A radical redesign would be pretty interesting to see, but would be a lot of work.

I ran the Wizards 3.5 update as written for a bunch of pre-gens, and found it was nice and perfectly lethal for the recommended party level. At this point I have had a TPK in at least three editions of the Tomb.

Then you sir, are running it correctly!
I'm playing in a ToH game at GenCon, its scheduled for four hours; if it goes past two, I'm leaving.