I'm sick of Kickstarters

[JeffB]

So you're upset that the company actually did what they were supposed to? .

Try reading again.

I'm upset because I gave a company a bunch of money up front , waited a long time, and then got a product I consider sub-par (to be kind). Had I been able to walk into a store and look at the adventures first, I would never had bought them . That is part of the KS model that sucks-buying blind/on faith and hoping for the best/hoping the products to be delivered will be as well done as previous products from a company.

 

[Lylandra]

I can understand that you may be frustrated if you back a project which, after months of waiting time, doesn't turn out to be what you expected. I can also understand the need to peek into a book prior to buying it. However, many of the bigger KS projects end up being printed anyway (or go print on demand), or will be made available on .pdf, so if you don't mind waiting time you can still get what you want.

I've had positive experiences with Kickstarter, although I am mostly interested in the bigger, more professional looking projects. So far, I've backed the 7th sea core rulebook (which is a marvelous hardcover edition, even if I don't know if I may ever play it), the HeroForge Custom mini service (again, genius service, albeit a bit expensive. My husband loves his Zeitgeist Mini) and the ArtOrder Artbook which had some serious delay but will be shipped soon (I simply wanted to support Jon's project and all the artists who are partially my sis' acquaintances, and I don't mind waiting for a beautiful hardcover artbook). And I'm happy to see that RPG writers gain more and more independance from big companies and publishers. More freedom to experiment and see what sticks. Yay.

 

[Morrus]

Try reading again.

I'm upset because I gave a company a bunch of money up front , waited a long time, and then got a product I consider sub-par (to be kind). Had I been able to walk into a store and look at the adventures first, I would never had bought them . That is part of the KS model that sucks-buying blind/on faith and hoping for the best/hoping the products to be delivered will be as well done as previous products from a company.

Isn't that problem inherent in buying anything online you can't physically look at?


Sent from my iPhone using EN World mobile app

 

[Sadras]

I like the Kickstarter model and I'm 2 out of 2 by backing Bruce Heard
Haven't taken any risks yet. I don't see the bubble bursting any time soon.

As for Ensider, I like it. Because of its size, I prefer it in electronic copy.
I have only used one of the adventures so far, but the player's had a blast.
Looking forward to using more content, just need to find the time.

 

[JeffB]

Isn't that problem inherent in buying anything online you can't physically look at?


Sent from my iPhone using EN World mobile app

Absolutely Russ.

But! And getting back to Mercurius' OP

In the traditional model of RPG publishing , the company produced a product,sent it to stores and the consumer had the option of evaluating the product, and purchasing in the store, or buying online (or mail- order, BITD). I often pay fl retail gladly if I really like what I see..if I feel it's not worth full price and I still want I will buy online through Amazon or what have you.

The onus was on the publisher. With KS projects of today, the majority of risk is on the consumer. Even companies of recent years who used to utilize the traditional model, like Necromancer/FGG and goodman, no longer use a traditional publishing method. They KS everything. Then put it in stores, or sometimes not depending on the scope of the project

In addition,they often now give retailers big breaks on KS pricing vs. "regular" customers to get funded which is another sore spot with me.

So, thus my decision to back away from blind purchase KS'ers in the future. I've seen alot I would love to back, but don't trust I will get what I am hoping for, or what I consider a good value. If they show up on shelves, I will take a look.

 

[pdzoch]

I've backed 17 projects so far on kickstarter, almost all of them games. To date, I have received 13 of them. A few late, but not egregious. Of those still due, only one is at risk. It is 18 months late, but the kickstarter has keep us informed the entire time -- delays have been due to an inability for the factories (on the third one now) to meet the specifications of the prototype consistently enough to make the product functional. Poor guy has mortgaged his house for the project.

All but one of the games I kickstarted were later available for public purchase. I could have waited until then and got the same product. By supporting the kickstarter, I did get some additional items for the games as a bonus, but for the most part they were not compelling reasons to back a game ahead of time instead of waiting. Some of the extras in the games I simply have never used -- they were nice, but unnecessary. The ONLY exception to this was my backing of the Dwarven Forge products. These products are generally so expensive to begin with, getting extra pieces as a bonus for stretch goals is a great deal. Additionally, Dwarven Forge kickstarter seldom translate to public availability after the products are delivered. So far, from what I've observed (I've backed three Dwarven Forge KS for far) is that they produce enough to meet the KS orders, but very little left over for the general public. Usually, within the year, they have restocked the new stuff for everyone else to purchase, but the extra pieces are generally not available.

Only one game I backed has been delivered only to the backers and not enough was made for retail sales. I and my family enjoy the game a lot, but we also recognize that it is a niche market with limited appeal. I had to go to great lengths to get a second copy afterwards by buying an extra copy from another KS backer.

So far, only once have I backed a game that once receiving it thought it was WAAAY overpriced for what was provided. I think they were going for an over-production feel, which came with an over-production cost, but it really wasn't needed. Especially when errors were discovered after the fact and addendum. I enjoy the product, but suffer a little buyer's remorse over it.

I've seen many projects on KS that look really great, but I decided to pass -- everyone has to have their own criteria over what is worth backing or not. Many of those projects are backed and sold publicly. Some I bought, some I didn't. Others did not meeting projects goals. Sometimes it was obvious (poor concept, etc), sometimes it was a shame (it looked really cool, but....)

I'm been backing a project over at Idiegogo. It's a different interface and backing process than Kickstarter. Some project designers like its flexibility over Kickstarter. One of my favorite projects moved from KS to Indiegogo this year. So far, I am not sure I see a difference in the quality of projects from the two sites. I've seen more polished presentations at Kickstarter, but that is just a salesmanship issue not a project or site issue.

Anyway, my experience with funding projects.

 

[Parmandur]

No need to apologize. Thanks for clarifying. The argument for print helps me to understand what may make a print run beneficial. Honestly, I wasn't distinguishing between print and POD before this thread. I surmised that a Kickstart would 1) fulfill print orders through drivethrurpg and 2) help to determine demand for the POD printer.

Oh, I'm sure some projects use POD at some point; but things like a deluxe leatherbound copy of the DCC ruleset, or a boxed set with foldout maps...that can't be done thru POD services, a more full service printer needs to do a run. Much less risk to the company if they get payment ahead of time, to be sure they can print what they need and get it to customers and stores whole paying the bills.

 

[L R Ballard]

Oh, I'm sure some projects use POD at some point; but things like a deluxe leatherbound copy of the DCC ruleset, or a boxed set with foldout maps...that can't be done thru POD services, a more full service printer needs to do a run. Much less risk to the company if they get payment ahead of time, to be sure they can print what they need and get it to customers and stores whole paying the bills.

Got it. Thanks again.

 

[Igwilly]

Well, I usually contribute to Kickstarter’s Brazilian version (Catarse), but I think this still holds:

My main problem with crowdfunding is: time and money. Money is short and rarely comes by just in time for a crowdfunding campaign. Usually there’s a minimal amount to get most of the rewards, and some of them are “exclusive” to supporters.
Basically, I rarely end up getting money just in time, and then I have to wait the book get released for everyone else, pay up a higher price than initial, and no rewards – some of them I won’t get it even for extra money.
The “buying-it-blind” also is a trouble: it’s very dangerous to spend that money on something you cannot even see at your hands or PC.
At least if they were nicer to post-campaign buyers, this wouldn’t be much of a trouble. I don’t know, but I do like the old model. I mean, sure, many products exist because of crowdfunding, but is not a model that fits my reality.

Edit: Grammar.

 

[was]

...I don't think that Kickstarters are going away anytime soon. It's a far safer business model for a company. They get a good idea of the potential marketability of their products and get startup capital directly from customers prior to actually manufacturing anything.

..It beats begging for a bank loan, at a high interest rate, in order to manufacture a product that you hope will be popular enough to pay back the bank and generate a profit.