I'm sick of Kickstarters

Parmandur

Book-Friend, he/him
I'm sorry you feel my points are unclear, but it is clear to me that you didn't comprehend them. It feels to me that either you didn't read what I said, or you disregarded what I said in order to continue with an argument. I see no point to this, and I'm starting to feel very unwelcome here. I apologize if I offended anyone with my opinion, but I have seen no critical evaluation of what I said, only what seems to be anger, sarcasm, and mockery.

I will try one last time to be as clear as possible: Not every Kickstarter company needs your money in order to publish their product. Some Kickstarter campaigns are done purely out of greed. Yes, some Kickstarters use their campaign money for a good cause, like producing a quality product, or even just being able to release their product, but I am not talking about those. And any personal objection to using Kickstarter myself is because I had a misconception about the use of Kickstarter. I thought that Kickstarter was used solely for crowdfunding projects that could not otherwise see the light of day. I understand now that it also serves as a way to Advertise and provide customers with the ability to pre-order. My point is that it is very misleading, in the same way as the wealthy homeless person example I gave above is.
In my experience, the whole process is quite upfront and honest: they are not begging for money, and it is not billed as charity: it's just a direct to end customer business proposition, no more or less moral than putting a product on store shelves or submitting a loan application. Moral analysis is a fairly complex thing, and confusing sober judgement with feelings is dangerous business...

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Lorrdyn

First Post
In my experience, the whole process is quite upfront and honest: they are not begging for money, and it is not billed as charity: it's just a direct to end customer business proposition, no more or less moral than putting a product on store shelves or submitting a loan application. Moral analysis is a fairly complex thing, and confusing sober judgement with feelings is dangerous business...

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I've never used Kickstarter to have any personal experiences, but you might have changed my perspective on it. I didn't look at it like a store shelf. I saw it through a lens of crowdfunding, which in my defense is what Kickstarter was originally intended for. If it has instead become accepted as simply another distribution platform, I stand corrected.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend, he/him
I've never used Kickstarter to have any personal experiences, but you might have changed my perspective on it. I didn't look at it like a store shelf. I saw it through a lens of crowdfunding, which in my defense is what Kickstarter was originally intended for. If it has instead become accepted as simply another distribution platform, I stand corrected.
Well, no worries; I've only backed a handful of things, chosen carefully, so that may have contributed to my positive experiences. But from a purely consumer perspective, it's no different than buying in store sight unseen.

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Lorrdyn

First Post
Well, no worries; I've only backed a handful of things, chosen carefully, so that may have contributed to my positive experiences. But from a purely consumer perspective, it's no different than buying in store sight unseen.

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The distinction of it being accepted as a marketing/distribution platform really changed my mind. I'm going to reconsider running a KS campaign, now that I see it differently.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend, he/him
The distinction of it being accepted as a marketing/distribution platform really changed my mind. I'm going to reconsider running a KS campaign, now that I see it differently.
I'll add that I can conceive of people using Kickstarter immorally, just as I can see maybe a local hobby shop being a money laundering front for the mob. But the model itself is morally neutral, at worst?

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Lorrdyn

First Post
I'll add that I can conceive of people using Kickstarter immorally, just as I can see maybe a local hobby shop being a money laundering front for the mob. But the model itself is morally neutral, at worst?

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Of course, but my argument was never about the platform. It was about the abuse of the platform by companies that didn't need crowdfunding. But I see now that we've moved past the concept of it being a crowdfunding platform, and have accepted it as a marketing/distribution platform.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend, he/him
Of course, but my argument was never about the platform. It was about the abuse of the platform by companies that didn't need crowdfunding. But I see now that we've moved past the concept of it being a crowdfunding platform, and have accepted it as a marketing/distribution platform.
At least in the RPG and board game hobbyist communities, most certainly.

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Igwilly

First Post
Wait…

Did this actually happen?

So, let be recorded that on this day, March 9 of 2017, an internet user nicknamed @Lorrdyn changed his or her mind on an online discussion at EnWorld, an internet forum!

That is one of the rare moments someone changes his/her mind on internet. That calls for a celebration!

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Now, seriously, nowadays I see it as a new - and peculiar - form of buying RPG books. Not entirely happy about it, but life is weird and things that make sense are not true. Plus, in Brazil, because of Catarse (Brazil's homebrewed Kickstarter) many systems are being translated, when before they would never even be considered by the past big companies.
 
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L R Ballard

Explorer
The distinction of it being accepted as a marketing/distribution platform really changed my mind. I'm going to reconsider running a KS campaign, now that I see it differently.

I encourage creators to consider doing Kickstarters if they have produced a product they believe in. I don't think such folks are "ripping people off" at all. The posters who've posted subsequently have made strong arguments to that effect, so I'll let them, and you, have the last word.

Let me say that I do see your point about how large companies may not really need a Kickstarter to make a project happen. Small publishers who use a Kickstarter to help fund a project they couldn't fund otherwise--art budget, printing, distribution--are probably acting in the spirit originally intended by the Kickstarter website.
 

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