Immortals Handbook Epic Bestiary (now available)

[CR_UNLIMITED!!!]

...and justto clarify, I never threatened. Never told him i'd be going after him.

Just told him that if he plans on doing shaddy business, he might want to get a lawyer. It'd protect him more than anything.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

I don't think any person angered by the lack of a release would use litigation on U_K. You would be in court 'forever.' (it takes the man how long to get a book out, imagine the legal delays )
Geez if someone wanted the book so badly, they would know better than to do something so rash. It would only make the book take longer .
U_K!
Ignore the peanut gallery who just want the book now. While I think it would have been to your benifit to leave the "... 2006" part out of your release date, I can't be helped. Just finish the book as best you can, whenever you can. I think people forget that you do other things in your spare time than sit at a desk and type away.
Keep at it U_K! The end is in sight. This is the biggest and most important book planned to my knowledge, therefore, it will be the biggest headache. Its all down hill from here.
As much as we all want a copy in our hands, this release is your work. You should do it Your way.

 

[CR_UNLIMITED!!!]

I'm not angered by the wait.

He can also do it which ever way he wants. But they do make these consumer/product laws so a supplier can be safe in making his product without having uprisings. It's for his own benefit that it at least be considered. In a community like this, most of us have gotten 'personal' with others and it becomes a friendly matter, which is fantastic. But serioulsy think of the regular consumer who itsn't a pal and forgiving enough to wait again....and again.....and again after they already paid. If you intend on selling a product to those outside a close circle you need to handle your business properly.

 

[Anabstercorian]

Honestly, I am annoyed. I think it's ridiculous for him to massage his ego as much as he does with the procrastination issues he has. But, hey - as he may have noticed, it's time to put up or be poor, so I'm confident that he's working on the product as swiftly as he can manage to.

 

[dante58701]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Sleeping soundly from the intoxicating boredom inspired by infantile postings)...not in referance to you Anabstercorian.

As for serious concerns Anabstercorian...you may have something there. I think he should avoid setting any sort of date just to avoid the whinings of the impatient ones. While they do have legitimate concerns those concerns are being forcefully posted in a not so diplomatic manner. Perhaps they should try seeing it from his perspective. Ill put this into perspective.

1.He's one person...not a crew...working on the most impressive and detailed epic material ever written.

2.He has a life of his own (Id hope)...so is limited to only a small amount of time in which to cram the vastness of his brain into one overwhelmingly complicated book.

3.The math alone would be horrendous.

4.He has to listen to the impatient whinings of people. People who were already told by him that no release date scheduled is final (people really need to pay attention...he is a small business and as such he is going to have a hard time dealing with irregular customers)

5.He's been very forthcoming with updates and informations detailing what he's putting into the book.

6.He's probably exausted.

7.He's probably stressed and in dire need of a vacation.

8.We can wait just a little longer...it wont kill us. I probably want this book more than anyone...I also preordered it. So I can understand the impatience factor.

9.When he reads these posts he might get a bit hurt by the negativity, which could (and I hope it doesn't) negatively impact his ability to finish the product in the manner his genius should allow.

10.As much as I want the book now...I want it done right even more. So I agree with Ltheb Silverfrond ...Keep going Krusty...were counting on you.

 

[CR_UNLIMITED!!!]

I think he should avoid setting any sort of date just to avoid the whinings of the impatient ones. While they do have legitimate concerns those concerns are being forcefully posted in a not so diplomatic manner.

I can't be impatient, no where did I state I wanted said document right away. I was just pointing out that giving an unapporpriate dealine can cause havoc and is not correct business. I agree with no dealine, I wish there was never one set so those who did pre-order don't feel jipped.

...and I havent been forceful at all, Dante. How you could see me pointing out a legality with the matter as undiplomatic is also beyond me. Everything was said in a complete proper manner. If anything this quote from you "ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Sleeping soundly from the intoxicating boredom inspired by infantile postings)...not in referance to you Anabstercorian.", is a perfect example you insulting me first. That is a cause for you to be reported.

4.He has to listen to the impatient whinings of people. People who were already told by him that no release date scheduled is final (people really need to pay attention...he is a small business and as such he is going to have a hard time dealing with irregular customers)

There has been no whining or impatience. He can also talk all he wants about release dates on these boards but if he advertises such, he's made a commitment to finish on time to all those who paid that don't have the pleasure to speak with him on these boards. Well, if you state he is a small business than you need to pay attention. As a 'business' what is transpiring with twice failed the release dates is bad business and has some legality to it. If it keeps up and there is no increase in organization than he'll be getting used to irregular customers.

If you have any further issues with me 'whining' why don't you bring it up with an e-mail instead of attempting to bring it out in the threads. That is more of a waste of time than a legit issue with UK's product.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Pssthpok mate!

UK, when you set down the original release dates for your projects, is that when you sit down at the computer and start typing?

No thats when I estimate I'll have it finished by.

Of course you can't always see the future, like the Publisher coming back while you are trying to work on Ascension, and requiring what amounted to about 45-50 hours work on the Bestiary.

Or that in finishing parts of the book, new questions would arise that would need answered and thus, more work.

It's what it seems like. I'm not trying to be offensive, but most of the 'work' in writing a document is the text, which can't take too much review before it's suitable for release. This leads me to believe that the mechanics are the source of the friction, a point which futher leads me to believe that the system hasn't been a working whole for very long. This creates concern about the work as a whole. Wasn't there a playtest held on this system? Are the results from that playtest affecting the work as a whole? I understand you have MGP work to do, but does it really take more than a month or two to write up just over a dozen builds?

I appreciate your candour, but there is nothing wrong with the mechanics that I know of.

The books simply not finished because its not finished. I might know all the 475 abilities in Chapter 4, but its not like I have the completed text for all those abilities just ready to be copied and pasted.

Its one thing to know all the answers, its wholly another thing to have the text finished, and I don't mean finished in a slap-dash fashion, but that actually adheres to some form of half-decent prose.

Ascension's pre-ordering was a thing of necessity, not choice and I know its something I'll never want to do again (after getting my fingers burnt this time), and hopefully not need to after I recoup some of the profits from the Print version of the Bestiary.

 

[GQuail]

Another day in the Elemental Plane of Fire here in the UK.

Today, though, seems to be returning for normal, at least for me. In fact, everyoen I meet is freezing because they're weeraring short sleeved shirts and the like after the past few days. ;-)

With regards Ascension, its not a matter of having a completed text document in front of me that I am constantly reworking. Its more like having a partially finished document that I am constantly trying to finish while constantly reworking the parts I already have finished.

Yeah, I had a feeling that was the case. In which case, the only advice I can give is to ignore what you've done for the moment and just crack down everything you can. As amazing as your new insight into how a templates special ability could be reworded, you've got to try to cast it aside and write what isn't there at all, and get back to the omnific feats. Take a note, but don't forever try to jump back and forth between different sections when things come to you: for one thing, you might find yourself changing the same thing several times when, had you waited to the end, there'd only be one operation required.

Also, we all know what you're like with deadlines and appreciate that when multiple work assignments clash, sometimes you need to make prioritising which means a deadline get shifted: but each new product you bring out means new people, which means new people toi get confused about why it's 9:00am on the day after your product deadline and it ain't out. I dunno really how to fix this: people will always want to know when the product is coming out, and no matter how mucb buffer time you offer there's always the risk. I guess you could try "winter 2006" style dates at first, and only offer specific months then weeks when the time gets closer and you actually know how busy you are in the dying seconds: but even then, the best laid plans and all that. ;-)

...you might have the September release confused with the Print Version of the Bestiary. Which is coming out in September.

I'm not confused about anything, it was just a hypothetical., since I had no release date to work from at the time. Not everything is about you, you egomaniac. ;-)

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello.

Normally companies have a finished product before they take money. There are legalities and rules protecting consumer from fake products.

What then is the point of the whole pre-ordering scheme? If you have the thing finished then surely pre-ordering is irrelevant. Therefore if, as you attest, the work must always be finished before transactions take place, what point is pre-ordering?

Surely pre-ordering involves a measure of trust between the Publisher and the Buyer?

Before I released the Bestiary pdf, no one would have had any reason to trust me, but I would like to think since then I have cultivated some sort of relationship with people, enough to get them to trust me past a few weeks of delay (knowing what I am like with deadlines) without getting upset.

Really, any schmo can slate he has a product and put it up for sale, take your money, and not provide anything.....or drag you along once said money has been received. As a company, i'd hope you check over all legalities for promising a product and all liabilities you will have to face for not producing.

How does it benefit me not to have this work finished as soon as possible? What the heck do you people think I am doing here, out partying on the pre-order money or something!?

This is the 2nd miss deadline that has bene posted after payments have been received.

You have a lawsuit on your hands if anyone of us gamers had the money to do so, instead of spending money on unseen promised products.

Well if you believe a lawsuit is warranted because of a few weeks delay over a matter of $12.50 then the world has just become an overly cynical and distressing place to live in.

As a man of honour, I hope you intend on correcting the situation. Whether it's refunding money and not taking anymore until your product is finished and ready for sale, or some type of equivilent bonus.

Surely the best thing I can do is finish Ascension as quickly as possible. Frankly I just want to be done with it now, because all this business is starting to leave a really bad taste and sour something I had hoped would excite people.

Any other product and most of you would be at your local Wal-marts looking for refunds. The only reason people seem complacent with getting ripped off is from the boost of hope and faith that has been instilled within them for 5 years. 5 YEARS. At least give us the beneift of receiving a final product when we pay for it when you say it's ready. Otherwise I don't see how anyone else isn't taking this as an insullt to their patience or loyalty.

If you plan on continuing business in that fashion with your products, get yourself a lawyer.

While I hold my hand up and acknowledge my inability to meet deadlines (which is why I hate giving them and was forced into it with Ascension) if this represents the level of trust people have in me then I think Ascension may well be my last product.

I didn't get into this to upset people, and I certainly didn't get into it to be called a charlatan and threatened with legal action.

 

[GQuail]

Normally companies have a finished product before they take money. There are legalities and rules protecting consumer from fake products.

I'm not going to get too bogged down in this paticular strand of discussion: but I will say that whilst I agree that continually failing to meet self-apointed deadlines isn't very classy, throwing around accusations of dubious or illegal behaviour around someone offering a pre-order seems pretty silly.

Pre-ordering is not an idea only U_K has ever ran with: even just in RPG circles, it's not uncommon for books before they are finished to ensure funding and establish how big the support is for them. Hell, if you go onto Amazon, you'll see all kinds of films, games and books offered up for pre-order, sometimes only after appearing as a "to be released 2006" entry in a press release. Such products missing deadlines, changing price or vanishing altogether is not unheard of: but people pre-order anyway, hoping to score a cheaper price, a first dibs when it comes to delivery, or just to help out a company whose products they enjoy.

Whether you intend to or not, CR_UNLIMITED, these past few posts have certainly come across as "threatning" to me. I'm not expecting every post on this thread to be a "OMG Krusty is so great!!!!11111111!1!1one!" , of course: but if you really think there'se a trading standards sort of issue here, then I suggest you either bring it up with the online store you bought it from and see what their stance is. Upper_Krust ahs made it clear he subscribes to the Duke Nukem Forever model of release dates: threatning him with legal trouble is not going to make him magically produce Ascension.