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Immortals Handbook Epic Bestiary (now available)

CR_UNLIMITED!!!

First Post
Wow...do you guys read the posts of just get frustrated when you see someone who's not kissing UK's butt?

Never once did I threaten legal action, never did I say I will be at his door with a laywer, i'd hope he'd like to know that what he's doing can warrent legal action and there are a lot of people among teh mases who don't care for excuses when they see you as a business and not some chum on the boards.

UK said:
What then is the point of the whole pre-ordering scheme? If you have the thing finished then surely pre-ordering is irrelevant. Therefore if, as you attest, the work must always be finished before transactions take place, what point is pre-ordering?

No, they have a finished product. The point of pre-ording is to build euthusiaism for their product. If anything the only thing not finsihed buy that stage is the something minimial like Box Cover art not the whole product. Like I said, otherwise everyone can put something up for pre-order and spend 2 years making that product if they wish. They make these rules not to only protect the consumer but it also protects the company as well. I'm sure that companies that follow these rules never see such a distaste for their product before it's even out.

Before I released the Bestiary pdf, no one would have had any reason to trust me, but I would like to think since then I have cultivated some sort of relationship with people, enough to get them to trust me past a few weeks of delay (knowing what I am like with deadlines) without getting upset

They trusted you because before the Bestiary you had the project pumped for 3-4 years before hand. When they've come so far, it'd be ridiculous to give up. You can expect your buddies that trust you know to not be upset, sure, but not those who are just purchasing the product, which I hope is the purpose when you put it up for interent sale. I'd hope you'd want your product to be successful outside of your buddies and if you do, good business is the only way to go since you can't give them smileys say "Hiya Mate" and tell them you're bad with deadlines.

Well if you believe a lawsuit is warranted because of a few weeks delay over a matter of $12.50 then the world has just become an overly cynical and distressing place to live in.

The worlds already like that. I've seen lawsuits for worse. Again, never said i'll be doing squat, just letting ya know there is a legal reason now for someone to take you to court for this and win. You'd be better off with not putting out release dates. Just like with your previous comment about release dates, You have to have something to sell before you put it for pre-order, not throw it together once you put it for sale.

Surely the best thing I can do is finish Ascension as quickly as possible. Frankly I just want to be done with it now, because all this business is starting to leave a really bad taste and sour something I had hoped would excite people.

It is the best thing you can do, as well as take off any advertised released date. It's oddly funny, if I was a business and was told what I did was wrong and can lead to legal liabilities, i'd make sure I didn't lose my business. But everyone is so stuck with this UK trend that just a graze of fresh air going in the opposite direction is a 'threat'.

While I hold my hand up and acknowledge my inability to meet deadlines (which is why I hate giving them and was forced into it with Ascension) if this represents the level of trust people have in me then I think Ascension may well be my last product.

If you were forced into it, i'm curious as why you weren't forced into finishing it on time. You claim to have done publishing before, you know how sticklers people can be for deadlines, especially when you work with people who don't care about your personal affairs only their business.

I once knew a man who didn't get his way and walked out of this theatre I work at. We called it "taking his toys and going home". If you can get that frustrated and quit from someone telling you reality with rules of business, i wonder what the heck WoTC is still doing in business, lord knows their line of trust from their people wavers immensely.

I didn't get into this to upset people, and I certainly didn't get into it to be called a charlatan and threatened with legal action.

Neither did I. No one has called you a charlatan nor threatened you with legal action. Maybe that's why it's taking so long to do texts, I mean, if you read my posts carefully I did neither of the above.
 

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Squire James

First Post
I think you guys are being too hard on CRU... who is simply acting as a bearer of bad news here. He didn't threaten to sue, he just warned UK that others may not be so kind. That being said, anyone who pays money to pre-order from something from an unpublished author should know what they're getting into.

BTW, I am very interested in your product and there is a high probability that you will get my order soon after the release.
 

dante58701

Banned
Banned
I think CR Unlimited is talking again. Ive iggied him so I have no idea what he's saying, but Im sure it's more negativity and self inflation. Why hasnt he been given a finger wagging yet? If I were behaving like him..Ida been banned by now. Anyhooo...off to look at critters in the Creature Catalogue.
 
Last edited:

CR_UNLIMITED!!!

First Post
Why owuld a finger be wagged at me?

I did nothing wrong Dante. It's not like I made a sweeping generlization about "christians liking to start flame wars over god threads". Shall I get the exact quote from you or would you rather change it first?

Now since your posts to date about my posts have nothing in rebutile and are about nothing to do with the problem or book i suggest you e-mail me as I said before if you have an issue. I have not receved an e-mail from you yet and your last post still tells me you have an issue with me. Why you haven't e-mailed me from teh first time I told you to stop attempting to drag me down and continue to do is beyond me. Man up Dante, nothing you have said since i've posted has been about the problem or book. E-mail me if you have anything else to say that has nothing to do with teh book. I'd love to deal with you on a more personal basis after all you've said.
 

Ace32

Explorer
Actually, CRU, I think he said he had you on his ignore list - so I doubt he's seeing anything you've posted.

However, I think we all need to drop the bickering about lawsuits. If nobody is threatening to sue anybody, theres no reason to keep tossing it around.. let it die.

Product roll out can be traumatic, even for big companies (book, video game, and the whatnot) - who have postponed deadlines in instances, even after pre-orders. Generally, the market will determine how long that group will remain in the black - if they feel they are getting screwed, the customers will turn on them.

Let's just let it play out and keep an ear to the ground for when the product is released. Those of you that preordered will be among the first to know.
 

Piratecat

Sesquipedalian
CRU, please take this particular problem out of this thread and address the problem with UK via email. Derailing the thread for this isn't something that should occur. There's nothing inherently wrong with asking about a delayed product, but we're sinking into frustrated sniping and bickering, and that's not okay.

If this is a problem for some reason, feel free to email me.
 

Hello again!

CR_UNLIMITED!!! said:
Wow...do you guys read the posts of just get frustrated when you see someone who's not kissing UK's butt?

I prefer to have it kissed rather than sued if those are the two choices on offer.

CR_UNLIMITED!!! said:
Never once did I threaten legal action, never did I say I will be at his door with a laywer,

But you did blatantly stir things up and blow what was a 3 week delay out of all proportion, where you were supporting the stance to sue me, even if you decided not to do so yourself.

CR_UNLIMITED!!! said:
i'd hope he'd like to know that what he's doing can warrent legal action and there are a lot of people among teh mases who don't care for excuses when they see you as a business and not some chum on the boards.

I don't take trust for granted, but I have trouble believing anyone in their right mind would take legal action over a, 'thus far' 3 week delay on a product costing $12.50. Especially after I have explained the situation (previous delay) on the website.

CR_UNLIMITED!!! said:
No, they have a finished product. The point of pre-ording is to build euthusiaism for their product. If anything the only thing not finsihed buy that stage is the something minimial like Box Cover art not the whole product. Like I said, otherwise everyone can put something up for pre-order and spend 2 years making that product if they wish. They make these rules not to only protect the consumer but it also protects the company as well. I'm sure that companies that follow these rules never see such a distaste for their product before it's even out.

Illogical. Your reasoning totally invalidates the whole point of pre-ordering in the first place.

CR_UNLIMITED!!! said:
They trusted you because before the Bestiary you had the project pumped for 3-4 years before hand. When they've come so far, it'd be ridiculous to give up. You can expect your buddies that trust you know to not be upset, sure, but not those who are just purchasing the product, which I hope is the purpose when you put it up for interent sale. I'd hope you'd want your product to be successful outside of your buddies and if you do, good business is the only way to go since you can't give them smileys say "Hiya Mate" and tell them you're bad with deadlines.

I have already explained that the pre-ordering of Ascension at that time was born out of necessity. If not for that pre-ordering I would have had to halt work on it altogether. So the choice was to take pre-orders and keep working on Ascension or not and halt production on it for at least 5-6 months maybe longer.

CR_UNLIMITED!!! said:
The worlds already like that. I've seen lawsuits for worse.

I find that hard to believe.

CR_UNLIMITED!!! said:
Again, never said i'll be doing squat, just letting ya know there is a legal reason now for someone to take you to court for this and win.

Well you better hope no one does sue me otherwise you'll never get it will you. So, smart move in bringing it up.

CR_UNLIMITED!!! said:
You'd be better off with not putting out release dates. Just like with your previous comment about release dates, You have to have something to sell before you put it for pre-order, not throw it together once you put it for sale.

When I gave the original release date I thought I would have met it. The second release date was missed to to reworking of the bestiary for the printers.

CR_UNLIMITED!!! said:
It is the best thing you can do, as well as take off any advertised released date. It's oddly funny, if I was a business and was told what I did was wrong and can lead to legal liabilities, i'd make sure I didn't lose my business. But everyone is so stuck with this UK trend that just a graze of fresh air going in the opposite direction is a 'threat'.

I'm always happy to hear advice or constructive criticism, but your posts seem to be more scaremongering than helpful.

CR_UNLIMITED!!! said:
If you were forced into it, i'm curious as why you weren't forced into finishing it on time. You claim to have done publishing before, you know how sticklers people can be for deadlines, especially when you work with people who don't care about your personal affairs only their business.

The bulk of the delay has been in making changes to the Print Version of the Bestiary for goodness sake.

CR_UNLIMITED!!! said:
I once knew a man who didn't get his way and walked out of this theatre I work at. We called it "taking his toys and going home". If you can get that frustrated and quit from someone telling you reality with rules of business, i wonder what the heck WoTC is still doing in business, lord knows their line of trust from their people wavers immensely.

Admittedly that moment of madness has passed, but frankly at the time I was feeling pretty unappreciated for putting in about 55 hours of work a week while at the same time living on a budget of about £15/week.

CR_UNLIMITED!!! said:
Neither did I. No one has called you a charlatan nor threatened you with legal action.

You certainly implied it though.

CR_UNLIMITED!!! said:
Maybe that's why it's taking so long to do texts, I mean, if you read my posts carefully I did neither of the above.

Do I have enough time to read it carefully before someone begins legal action, thats the question.
 

Piratecat

Sesquipedalian
UK, did you read my note just above your post? I've asked CRU to no longer discuss this matter in this thread. Responding to his post makes that a whole lot more difficult.

Seriously, please either start a new thread about this in the Publisher's forum or handle it by email, but don't continue to discuss it here. If you want to talk about it, please email me.
 

Rockhoward56

First Post
I'm with you U-k

hum
I trust Krusty , He's not a charlatan.
I can wait , because he want to publish a good book!
About the print bestiary: you have revised all the CR? Could you publish the CR revised please because he could be useful!
Algol only Cr 160? and he had a neutronium golem?????
U-K i'm thinking about this stuff:
Sandalphon is CR130 ok but if the players (evil of course) would have the crazy idea to battle him?
His Cr In Upper Plane would be far beyond CR130 ( cause he could summon all Kyriotates , malakim etc, and maybe use his epic ritual to awaken a Cherubim)
:)
I sure you're doing a excellent work on Ascension and the print bestiary!
I'm curious about the rework on the Bestiary :)
 

Hey Piratecat! :)

Piratecat said:
UK, did you read my note just above your post? I've asked CRU to no longer discuss this matter in this thread. Responding to his post makes that a whole lot more difficult.

Yes but if you take a glance at the times between your post and mine (11 minutes), you will understand that I clicked reply before you had made your post. So I didn't see it until after I had responded.

However, if you want me to delete it I will.

Piratecat said:
Seriously, please either start a new thread about this in the Publisher's forum or handle it by email, but don't continue to discuss it here. If you want to talk about it, please email me.

I don't want to discuss it here at all, and for the record I did just create a thread about it in the Publishers Forum, although that was more along the lines of asking for advice on the matter rather than furthering any debate.

If CR_Unlimited has anything further to discuss on this matter I am happy to accomodate him via email.
 

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