Immunities and Equipment?

[fiddy]

Are there any rules for what happens to a character's equipment if the character is within the target area of an energy attack that the character is immune to? Usually (assuming I am remembering correctly) a character's equipment isn't damaged unless the character rolls a natural 1 on their saving throw. I assume for the case of a character immune to the attack that this would be handled in one of the following ways:

A) Character doesn't roll a save, so there is no worry about a natural 1 (so no damage would be done to the equipment)

OR

B) Roll the save just to see if a natural 1 comes up and equipment gets damaged.

Simplicity would say option A, realism would likely say option B. I'm curious as to whether the rules specifically say one or the other (or a different option that I missed).

For a specific case, consider a dragon shaman with a line of acid attack using that attack through a square that is occupied by another party member who happens to be immune to acid (bladeling).

Thanks in advance for any help! I've tried looking through the FAQ and here in the forums, but am having trouble finding the answer if it exists.

 

[Question]

Option A i think, unless you want to get REALLY realistic........then again this could vastly shift power towards mages.

"I cast an acidic fireball at the horde of orcs coming this way. Now they have no armor or weapons! GET THEM!"

 

[pawsplay]

By the RAW, the answer is B. Just assume the character's body shields their equipment from the worst of it. I'll admit, for something like a robe or heavy armor, this could get silly.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I was under the assumption that energy resistance or immunity conferred that ability to your equipment, but I don't readily see that in the rules. Perhaps I was mistaken? Otherwise, you had better double check all the equipment that, say, a salamander has.

 

[Corsair]

I was under the assumption that energy resistance or immunity conferred that ability to your equipment, but I don't readily see that in the rules. Perhaps I was mistaken? Otherwise, you had better double check all the equipment that, say, a salamander has.

Heat (Ex): A salamander generates so much heat that its mere touch deals additional fire damage. Salamanders’ metallic weapons also conduct this heat.

The salamander's spear in the stat block is dealing fire damage. Ergo, it must be metallic. Fire does half damage to objects. 1-3 fire damage won't get through the hardness of pretty much any metals. (technically it wouldn't get through the 5 hardness of a spear either)


That being said however, I could imagine that an energy immunity/resistance/protection spell would protect your equipment, but the fire immunity of say, a half gold dragon, would not. In those sorts of cases, I would select option B.

 

[frankthedm]

Rules B. Role the 1, the resitance takes a chunck of the damage off if it applies, halve the damage in most situations, reduce for hardness and blam!

I could imagine that an energy immunity/resistance/protection spell would protect your equipment, but the fire immunity of say, a half gold dragon, would not. In those sorts of cases, I would select option B.

Spells and similar effects that grant energy immunties and resitances specify when they effect equipment.

Natural immunities normally do squat for gear.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The salamander's spear in the stat block is dealing fire damage. Ergo, it must be metallic. Fire does half damage to objects. 1-3 fire damage won't get through the hardness of pretty much any metals. (technically it wouldn't get through the 5 hardness of a spear either)

Sure, but it also means a salamander can't reasonably possess potions, scrolls, bags of holding, etc. There's at least one WotC published adventure with a salamander that contradicts this theory.

 

[KarinsDad]

I was under the assumption that energy resistance or immunity conferred that ability to your equipment, but I don't readily see that in the rules. Perhaps I was mistaken? Otherwise, you had better double check all the equipment that, say, a salamander has.

This is true for the Resist Energy spell, but just because a specific spell protects the equipment does not mean that a creature's similar abilities works the same way unless specified.

Sure, but it also means a salamander can't reasonably possess potions, scrolls, bags of holding, etc. There's at least one WotC published adventure with a salamander that contradicts this theory.

That's like saying "There's at least one WotC designer who does not know the rules.".


The saving throw is rolled before modifiers to damage are applied and effects are determined, not the other way around. So, Energy Immunity is applied after the saving throw is rolled, regardless of the fact that it is irrelevant to the immune creature per se. It might be relevant to its equipment if it rolls a one unless the Energy Immunity effect itself specifies that it protects the equipment.

 

[ElectricDragon]

Saving Throws: Nonmagical, unattended items never make saving throws. They are considered to have failed their saving throws, so they always are affected by spells. An item attended by a character (being grasped, touched, or worn) makes saving throws as the character (that is, using the character’s saving throw bonus).
Magic items always get saving throws. A magic item’s Fortitude, Reflex, and Will save bonuses are equal to 2 + one-half its caster level. An attended magic item either makes saving throws as its owner or uses its own saving throw bonus, whichever is better.

This seems to say that the item gets its own save. The immune character doesn't need one and the item uses the character's bonuses. Of course this will quickly get silly as the fire immune character runs around naked because fire destroyed all his gear. or how about this:

Spell Immunity (Ex): A creature with spell immunity avoids the effects of spells and spell-like abilities that directly affect it. This works exactly like spell resistance, except that it cannot be overcome. Sometimes spell immunity is conditional or applies to only spells of a certain kind or level. Spells that do not allow spell resistance are not affected by spell immunity.

Do immune spells still affect the creature's gear? Roll a save and if a 1 comes up, then yes? Poor stone golem that lost his pretty hat and robe to a fireball that didn't affect him.

Immunity is a rare ability that should confer immunity to the gear also. Else, why are there not spells that provide immunity from different effects/energies/natural forces for items? Lets see, I'll memorize a fireproof backpack spell at 1st level, a fireproof sword spell at 2nd level, and a fireproof shield spell at 1st level. Then for cold, I'll need...
Or easier, allow fireproofing/coldproofing/acidproofing/sonicproofing/electricityproofing as a normal part of the crafting process costing +100 gp per type proofed. Or make it a magic ability that can be added to weapons, armor, shields, wands, potion bottles, scrolls, clothing, etc. that costs just 1,000 gp per prevention.

If immunity does not confer immunity; it is not immunity. If I am immune to fire and can withstand the fiery heat of a lava stream; why do I have to divest myself of all my equipment to take a swim in it?

The fireball fries my equipment even though it has no chance of affecting me. What about the rogue next to me with no immunity or resistance who rolls a 2 on his Reflex save and doesn't even catch on fire? My blazing equipment would provide a light to laugh by.

If an effect can not affect you at all why would it have a chance of affecting your equipment? In this abstract game where a successful saving throw from a non-immune, non-resistant creature negates any equipment being affected at all; why force one on a creature that should not be affected? But hey, it's your game, add as many extra rolls as you want.

Ciao
Dave