Implementing medium save progressions in core classes

[Destil]

i.e. starting at +0 and increasing by +1 / 2 levels as in Arcana Unearthed.

Hoe does this sound:
Fighter / Barbarian - Medium Ref, Good Fort
Cleric / Druid - Medium Fort, Good Will
Rogue - Medium Fort, Good Reflex
Bard / Wizard / Sorcerer / Psion - No changes
Paladin / Psychic Warrior - Medium Will, Good Fort
Ranger (3.5 ver) - Medium Reflex, Good Fort

 

[Kerrick]

I agree for the most part with those (I've also been considering adding mid-level saves). Fighter shouldn't get the Ref save; I don't see any real reason for the rogue to get moderate Fort. Other than that, I'd keep them.

 

[Merlion]

I think Fighter should get Moderate Will and Ref. In previous editions Fighters had some of the best saves, and one of the problems with Fighters now is the way in which the other melee classes are frequently better choices than the Fighter partially due to their often superior saves.

I could see Rogue with Moderate fort.

I dont have a problem inherently with rangers having Good ref in 3.5

and I wholeheartdly agree that the Cleric shouldnt neccesarilly have Good Fort and Will. Course thats a whole other kettle of fish.

 

[Nifft]

IMHO:

Fighters getting two Moderate and one Good save = cool. It's a nice way to keep them powered up with the other classes at high level.

Likewise, I'd be okay with Bards getting good Will and the other two being Moderate.

Barbarians should perhaps get Moderate Reflex, but I'd encourage those who want it to instead take the "Whirling Frenzy" variant of Rage, and/or a few levels of Rogue.

Rogues should NOT get a Moderate Fort save. They're already a great class, and many Rogues dip into that wonderful class called "Fighter" for a few levels.

Rangers are the only class that has a good Fort and Reflex save, so I'm okay with them staying as-is.

-- N

 

[Kerrick]

I could see fighters getting a moderate Will save, but I'm not sure about the Ref save... fighters tend to run the gamut from "quick and nimble" to "I'm a walking tank", and I think PrCs would be better suited to grant the good saves that fit the fighting style.

Bards getting a moderate Fort save: I dunno... it's kind of like giving rogues the same thing. Good Will, yes. Moderate or Good Reflex: hard to say which one fits better, but they should get one or the other. Bards aren't really known for being "tough", though, so I can't think of a good reason for the Fort save.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Isn't the difference between a moderate and a good save, by high levels, almost just what could be covered with one of the save-boosting feats? I know that many of the classes don't want to spare a precious feat on such a thing, but fighters have so many feats that they could spare one. I don't see the fighter as underpowered resulting from the poorer saves, I just see fighters without decent saves as having made the choice not to take the feats.

I'm not against moderate saves, by the way, I've used them in home-brew prestige classes since 3.0.

Dave

 

[Relic]

Isn't the difference between a moderate and a good save, by high levels, almost just what could be covered with one of the save-boosting feats? I know that many of the classes don't want to spare a precious feat on such a thing, but fighters have so many feats that they could spare one. I don't see the fighter as underpowered resulting from the poorer saves, I just see fighters without decent saves as having made the choice not to take the feats.

I'm not against moderate saves, by the way, I've used them in home-brew prestige classes since 3.0.

Dave

While fighters do get a lot of feats I do not think those feats should be used to make up for an inherent flaw design. The only game the fighter has is in his feats and if he is using those feats to make up for a weakness that is inherent in the class (and not in a majority of the other fighting classes) then that only weakens the class even more. Fighters need something to help their defense, especially against magic. Granting a Medium Will save progression goes a long way towards balancing that issue. Then, the fighter can use those extra feats of his towards things he should be doing such as... fighting (weapon specialization, greater weapon specialization, weapon focus, greater weapon focus, etc).

I used Medium saves since 3.0 first came out. My players like it... I like it... and my class-based villians like it too.

 

[Relic]

double post...