Impossible To Run A GameForked Thread: I Owe Wizards an Apology

[Rykion]

As a player, have you ever left a game because the GM wasn't being 'true' to the line?
No, but most games I've ever played in have been homebrews. I'm also pretty easy to please when it comes to canon.

As a player, how much do you think your character knows about the setting?
Quite a bit. Local customs, the common world customs, laws, the local area, rulers, most basic low level monster information, and anything else that makes sense to the character's background.

As a player, have you ever 'forced' out another player?
Not based on setting canon.

As a GM, how... constrained do you feel by the fiction line?
It depends on how familiar my players are with the setting. If no one is familiar I mostly ignore it. I used to try to run a setting even if some players knew it better than me. It either ended up like my story above, or the players in the know kept quiet but enjoyed the game less. I don't see the point in running a game in a setting if I can't please the players who are fans, so I usually end up homebrewing or running a setting that I am most familiar with.

As a GM, have you ever stopped running a game because a player ruined it for you?
I've stopped games because the players who knew the setting best weren't having fun. I game to have fun and I know they do too. I've never had a player ruin a game.

As a GM have you had to ask a player to leave because they were ruining the enjoyment of other players?
No.

 

[Khairn]

As a player, have you ever left a game because the GM wasn't being 'true' to the line?
Never. Since enjoying the game is the ultimate goal of any RPG, if that is happening why would I care if the GM killed off Elminster or redesigned the Mournlands? Now if the GM and players were deliberately trying to play a "canon" game, it would be different.

As a player, how much do you think your character knows about the setting?
Really depends on each player and the setting. I have some players who know FR better than me, and others who know IK like the back of their hands. Having a good "lore-smith" at the table can even be a godsend when I'm trying to remember an obscure historical event.

As a player, have you ever 'forced' out another player?
Yes, two actually. The specific reasons were consistent cheating on dice rolls, and being too arguementative. In both cases I spoke with the GM first to see what his perspective was, and then only did so once the GM requested some help in getting the players to leave.

As a GM, how... constrained do you feel by the fiction line?
Not at all. It's my game and setting to play as I want to get the maximum enjoyment for myself and players. Its not the authors game. I must admit that I feel sorry for any GM and player who feel that a novel trumps their enjoyment.

As a GM, have you ever stopped running a game because a player ruined it for you?
Nope. If the player is ruining my enjoyment, he can leave. Having said that, I have had my players come to me with some concerns about how I was running the game. I easily understood what they were saying and made the necessary changes. Listening to your players is very important. But as the GM, any changes are ultimately my call to make.

As a GM have you had to ask a player to leave because they were ruining the enjoyment of other players?
Yes. Maybe 5 or 6 times in 30 years of GM'ing, which really isn't to bad an average.

 

[Holy Bovine]

As a player, have you ever left a game because the GM wasn't being 'true' to the line?

No. I rarely read much beyond the campaign setting book so wouldn't really know if the GM was deviating from canon.

As a player, how much do you think your character knows about the setting?

Depends on the type of character I'm playing. I use in game stats & skills to get specific info on a setting from the GM.

As a player, have you ever 'forced' out another player?
No, but I have had people leave a group about 5 minutes before being asked to leave the group.

As a GM, how... constrained do you feel by the fiction line?

Very little. Usually I use a specific setting because I like a few elements of it but I have not found a single setting that has everything the way I want it right out of the box. I change things as I see fit.

As a GM, have you ever stopped running a game because a player ruined it for you?

Yes.

As a GM have you had to ask a player to leave because they were ruining the enjoyment of other players?

No, but a few have left on their own without being asked.

 

[Dragonbait]

As a player, have you ever left a game because the GM wasn't being 'true' to the line?
No. I might make a comment about it, but typically I don't. I've been tempted several times, but fortunately those games died before I had to cut and run (and no, I had nothing to do with the death of the games.)

As a player, how much do you think your character knows about the setting?
Depends on the character I'm playing. I actually get annoyed with players when they play some character who never had a decent education and never left a specific region then start spouting off their knowledge of the Planes and the lands thousands of miles away. I'll slip up, but I -try- to keep in mind my character's origin.

As a player, have you ever 'forced' out another player?
No. Never.

As a GM, how... constrained do you feel by the fiction line?
Depends. Sometimes I am the one putting on the constraints, sometimes I feel like the players want things to be too accurate and I can't write the adventures I want. The latter happens in well-established settings where the players know more of it than I do.

As a GM, have you ever stopped running a game because a player ruined it for you?
Yes. Forgotten Realms, specifically. The player started demanding that I bring in the seven sisters, and would try to go to them for information. The player then would get mad when I said that they were not around.

As a GM have you had to ask a player to leave because they were ruining the enjoyment of other players?
Yes. But it had nothing to do with the setting. They were players who would throw temper tantrums or force inter-group conflicts when there was no clear reason to.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Going to give one overall answer to the OP, on the question of Is it impossible...

Impossible, no. More trouble than its worth? Somewhere between often and most of the time.

 

[Voadam]

I have a few things I'd like to discuss here.

As a player who enjoys the fiction of a line, anything from playing a super hero in the Marvel Universe or DC setting to playing a Jedi Knight in the Old Republic or a hearty fighter in the Forgotten Realms, what are your expectations from the GM?

Eh, just that that is the setting the game is set in. I expect to see some familiar setting elements, (villains or space stuff or D&D things). In FR I expect to be able to use some basic context like that Bhaal is the god of murder (depending on time frame the game is set in) but if my friend who is DMing is using the original gray box as his CS I don't expect him to have necessarily incorporated the Moonshaes trilogy, the Time of Troubles novels where Cyric murdered Bhaal, etc.

As a player, have you ever left a game because the GM wasn't being 'true' to the line?

No.

The most upset I ever got was when a friend of mine was running a module out of Dungeon as part of a long-going campaign. This module involved going into an extradimensional library and collecting the runes for the name Omega, the god of knowledge and lore and writing to help out a bunch of priests of Omega. We spent hours in there. I was puzzled when we found an H but figured we just needed to find the right ones. A while after having found five runes with no E, searching everywhere for the E and finding no other rune letters that didn't fit I turned to my friend who was DMing and said "Wait. Is the god's name Oghma? The Celtic and Forgotten Realms god of Writing and Knowledge? O-G-H-M-A and not O-M-E-G-A? Has it all been Oghma this whole time and we've already found the right five runes?" My DM friend who is dyslexic said "Of course not" looked at the module, looked at it again, flipped back through a couple of pages to the intro and then back to where we were in the module and then flushed bright red and said "Well, maybe". So he got the setting elements wrong, it affected the game and led to frustrating fruitless searching, but its just a funny anecdote I tease him about occasionally, we kept going with the campaign.

As a player, how much do you think your character knows about the setting?

Depends on the character. I've played an ignorant barbarian jungle troll in a WOW RPG game before because I didn't know the world and wanted to explore it and learn about it in game.

As a player, have you ever 'forced' out another player?

No

As a GM, how... constrained do you feel by the fiction line?

When I ran Dark Sun I had all the Dragon Kings alive, Prism Pentad and 2e be damned. I feel free to modify the setting itself so the fiction is even easier to ignore if I don't like something in it.

As a GM, have you ever stopped running a game because a player ruined it for you?

No.

As a GM have you had to ask a player to leave because they were ruining the enjoyment of other players?

Yes but it was not based on setting issues but their adversarial interactions with me as GM and their incompatible game style.

 

[Burrito Al Pastor]

As a player who enjoys the fiction of a line, anything from playing a super hero in the Marvel Universe or DC setting to playing a Jedi Knight in the Old Republic or a hearty fighter in the Forgotten Realms, what are your expectations from the GM?

My expectations are for the GM to love the setting he's running his game in. I don't want to people to run Eberron games because I want to play in Eberron games; I want people to run Eberron games because I want them to love it as much as I do.

As a player, have you ever left a game because the GM wasn't being 'true' to the line?

It was a contributing factor, but probably the least of them.

As a player, how much do you think your character knows about the setting?

As much as my Knowledge checks say I do.
But more seriously, major political, religious, and geographic entities are reasonable to expect - or, at least, they are in Eberron, which is my setting of choice. And, of course, it's generally reasonable to assume that anything in a book titled "The Player's Guide To" is going to be fair game, barring some reason to expect otherwise.

As a player, have you ever 'forced' out another player?

I do not believe I have ever actively participated in such, no.

As a GM, how... constrained do you feel by the fiction line?

Not at all, because I know none of my players are particularly well-read in it.

As a GM, have you ever stopped running a game because a player ruined it for you?

As a GM have you had to ask a player to leave because they were ruining the enjoyment of other players?

I induced a player to leave because he was ruining it for me, but I've never had to actually ask.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

As a player who enjoys the fiction of a line, anything from playing a super hero in the Marvel Universe or DC setting to playing a Jedi Knight in the Old Republic or a hearty fighter in the Forgotten Realms, what are your expectations from the GM?

I expect the DM/GM to know atleast as much as I do or close to it...being a huge comic nerd with just shy of 20 years of DCU stuff back loged in my attic means I don't play in the DCU...

As a player, have you ever left a game because the GM wasn't being 'true' to the line?

Yes...twice Once in Star trek when I set my phaser to over load...and was told I coud not they had safty feature prventing it...when I showed the GM the rule he said too bad...My character got assimlated by the borg aand I didn't make a new one

Once in WW Vampire game I drew up a Ventrue and walked into game (larp)...I found a click of gangral that hated Ventrue, and attacked me. My fortitude and lucky rolls on Presence saved me, then I reported them to the harpy...I was told this elesium had no rules about fighting,,,and then the sherif attacked me for 'being a snych' I walked out...

As a player, how much do you think your character knows about the setting?

depends on tghe setting and character

As a player, have you ever 'forced' out another player?

I belive so once...My only experiance in a DCU game I almost spit soda out my nose when the GM said that the green lantern core was founded by alan scott...When I asked about the other changes I was told it was not a change but DC cannon...two players left when i called BS...then I did leaving jus teh DM and his brother...

As a GM, how... constrained do you feel by the fiction line?

I only feel constrained if others know it better then I...

As a GM, have you ever stopped running a game because a player ruined it for you?

Multi FR games, and one M&M

As a GM have you had to ask a player to leave because they were ruining the enjoyment of other players?

yes and no, normaly I end the game instead

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

As a player who enjoys the fiction of a line, anything from playing a super hero in the Marvel Universe or DC setting to playing a Jedi Knight in the Old Republic or a hearty fighter in the Forgotten Realms, what are your expectations from the GM?

I don't expect anything. I understand that each GM is running his interpretation of the campaign world or using it as a jumping off point to save the time it takes to build a world from scratch.

As a player, have you ever left a game because the GM wasn't being 'true' to the line?

No. I couldn't leave for this reason. I believe the campaign is unique to each GM. I am willing to evaluate it on its own merits.

As a player, how much do you think your character knows about the setting?

Depends on the setting. The GM should help define what we know.

As a player, have you ever 'forced' out another player?

No. Why would I?

As a GM, how... constrained do you feel by the fiction line?

I don't. Once I take the helm the world is mine to do with as I please.

As a GM, have you ever stopped running a game because a player ruined it for you?

Kind of. I had a Realms Lawyer in my group that was very disruptive. He talked me into running a campaign in the Realms instead of my usual Greyhawk. Then he proceeded to try to run things via knowledge of the setting and novels. If he wanted to be in charge he could have just offered to run a campaign. I would have gladly stepped out from behind the screen to play. I say 'kind of' because we often started new campaigns. So I started a new campaign and never picked up the Realms one again.

As a GM have you had to ask a player to leave because they were ruining the enjoyment of other players?

No. The group dictates gaming style by majority and those who don't enjoy the majority's choice in style usually conform until they decide to quit. I run my games to fit the style that the majority of my players will enjoy. I may throw the occasional nod to a minority style, but it usually isn't going to be enough if someone prefers a particular style over others.

 

[JeffB]

I've had some "Canon Lawyers" ruin games in the past for sure.

For my own part- I enjoy canon- for example, I enjoy knowing all the details of Star Wars (despite the cheese of the prequels), or ST:TNG, or Tolkien's Middle Earth, or even the Forgotten Realms (like Star Wars, despite the cheese).

But as a GM or a player I'm a firm believer in PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T FOLLOW THE CANON! Mix it up a little bit within reason. I cannot say I'd enjoy Star Wars if Darth Vader was a Rebel leader fighting for peace & prosperity across the Galaxy, or if ST Klingons were into sunshine, puppies and rainbows, but don't run your games based on the in your face canon plots, and story elements. Run a Dalelands game, but PLEASE keep Elminster & Drizzt out of it- even in small little bit part roles. Ignore the novels- do your own thing- thats what I did when I ran FR (I went off my own tangent based on some of the stuff published in Cloak & Dagger back in 1999 and ignored most of the "canon" during 2E and as 3E surfaced)

The best games are the ones that dance around the "main storyline" of the established canon while still putting PC's in the spotlight/as the Heros. I wanna play the part of the PC group who stole the Death Star plans or the who had to evacuate Dantooine, not Luke, Han & Leia.