Improved Familiar and Type

RobNJ · Oct 29, 2002

Do all Improved Familiars lose their existing Type and become Type "Magical Beast"? This seems illogical, if so. I mean, a pseudodragon all of a sudden isn't a dragon anymore? A quaist is no longer an outsider?

Speaks With Stone · Oct 29, 2002

The way I understand is that it never was the original type. You don't cast this spell on a frog (pseudodragon, or whatever) and convert it to a familiar. Instead you summon a familiar (spirit of some sort, I guess) that takes on the guise of such a creature. But it is still just a magical beast because that is the Familiar Type.

RobNJ · Oct 29, 2002

Speaks With Stone said:
The way I understand is that it never was the original type. You don't cast this spell on a frog (pseudodragon, or whatever) and convert it to a familiar. Instead you summon a familiar (spirit of some sort, I guess) that takes on the guise of such a creature. But it is still just a magical beast because that is the Familiar Type.

Well, there is a transformation. If you die, your familiar becomes a normal animal of its type, for example.

Furthermore, let's say we have a ranger who has Dragons as his favored enemy. If he's fighting a wizard's pseudodragon familiar, why shouldn't he get his bonuses to skill rolls and attacks against the pseudodragon? It is a dragon.

I think this is a case where the rules were written with normal animals in mind, and not enough work was done to the Improved Familiar feat when it came out.

Mr Fidgit · Oct 29, 2002

the rules really aren't very clear on this. Tome and Blood states that improved familars 'have unusal special abilities but follow the general rules for familiars', but goes on to contradict itself in the creature descriptions

for example, a celestial hawk (outsider) improved familar listed 'type' is magical beast, but the formian worker, mephits and imp remain outsiders, the elementals are called 'elementals' (and not outsiders or magical beasts), homunculus is a construct and stirge is a beast (not magical beast)

(and psueodragon is listed as a dragon)

Pbartender · Oct 29, 2002

Mr Fidgit said:
...a celestial hawk (outsider) improved familar listed 'type' is magical beast...

Double check the Celestial and Fiendish templates... "Beasts or animals with this template become magical beasts, but otherwise the creature type is unchanged."

They are not outsiders, unless they were already one to begin with.

It looks like they left the descriptors alone for Imp. Familiars... Whether it was intentional or not.

Has anyone checked the FAQ or Errata yet?

Mr Fidgit · Oct 29, 2002

Pbartender said:
Double check the Celestial and Fiendish templates... "Beasts or animals with this template become magical beasts, but otherwise the creature type is unchanged."

Has anyone checked the FAQ or Errata yet?

ACK!

i've got 'descriptors' on the brain after doing the spell descriptor list

the FAQ doesn't mention familiars at all, and there hasn't been a T&B errata posted to the Wizards site

RobNJ · Oct 29, 2002

Mr Fidgit said:
the FAQ doesn't mention familiars at all, and there hasn't been a T&B errata posted to the Wizards site

There is a T&B FAQ but it doesn't cover this.

I've sent a message to The Sage, but since Skip Williams was let go I haven't gotten any responses from The Sage.

Shayuri · Oct 30, 2002

This is the way I interpret the info...take it as you will.

When animals are made into familiars (and according to Tome and Blood, you do change an existing animal into a familiar, not summon up a special one then and there) they become magical beasts. I assume the reason for that transformation is to allow for higher Int scores, as well as the myriad special abilities familiars have that normal animals do not.

However, the creature type for Improved Familiars doesn't change, at least in the examples I've seen. My interpretation for that is that elementals, outsiders, dragons, etc...they all already have the capacity in their creature types for high intelligence and spell-like/supernatural abilities. Therefore, a change in creature type is pointless. It adds nothing, and is in fact counterintuitive.

Though, I admit, by this idea the Stirge familiar ought to become a magical beast too. Oversight maybe? *shrug*

skymage · Oct 30, 2002

i like they way you think Shayuri.
that makes so much sense to me i think i'll start uding that. improved familiar is one of my favorite feats. as for the stirge useing your way of familiar type would make it a magical beast makes scence to me. so until WotC comes out with a better solution i'll use your idea.