Improved Grab question

[Hammerforge]

In the text for Improved Grab, it says this:

The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the improved grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a -20 penalty on grapple checks, but is not considered grappled itself; the creature does not lose its Dexterity bonus to AC, still threatens an area, and can use its remaining attacks against other opponents. A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).

What confuses me is the apparent contradiction in the text. At first it says that the creature may conduct the grapple normally OR simply hold the opponent. This means that no grapple check is required if the creature chooses to hold its opponent. However, it goes on to say that there are grapple checks each round.

I know there's something I'm missing, but what is it?

Thanks.

 

[shilsen]

It would probably be clearer if the first sentence read - "The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used to grab the opponent."

Use that and the rest should make sense.

 

[Hammerforge]

It would probably be clearer if the first sentence read - "The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used to grab the opponent."

But "use the part of its body" for what? to let go of the opponent and do something else?

 

[Hypersmurf]

No.

If I grapple you, I am considered 'grappled'. I don't threaten an area, I lose my Dex bonus to AC against others, and so on.

But let's say I'm some giant thing with Improved Grab. Instead of getting right in close and wrapping my arms around you, I just pick you up by the scruff of the neck and hold you at arm's length. Obviously, it's much harder to keep hold of you this way, so I take a -20. But I'm not considered 'grappled' (though you are), so I don't lose my Dex bonus, and I can continue to fight other people with the sword in my other hand.

Instead of 'all of me' being tied up in wrestling with you, it's only that one arm that's occupied. The rest of me is free to act normally.

-Hyp.

 

[Hammerforge]

No.

If I grapple you, I am considered 'grappled'. I don't threaten an area, I lose my Dex bonus to AC against others, and so on.

But let's say I'm some giant thing with Improved Grab. Instead of getting right in close and wrapping my arms around you, I just pick you up by the scruff of the neck and hold you at arm's length. Obviously, it's much harder to keep hold of you this way, so I take a -20. But I'm not considered 'grappled' (though you are), so I don't lose my Dex bonus, and I can continue to fight other people with the sword in my other hand.

Instead of 'all of me' being tied up in wrestling with you, it's only that one arm that's occupied. The rest of me is free to act normally.

-Hyp.

Okay, understood. But then why does the text refer to "each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds" if this huge creature is not grappled?

 

[mvincent]

Okay, understood. But then why does the text refer to "each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds" if this huge creature is not grappled?

The giant that grabbed you still has the option to squeeze you with a grapple check. It's grappling you, you're just not grappling it.

 

[Hammerforge]

Okay, let me sum this up in my own words to see if I get it:

A creature with Improved Grab can do one of two things:

1) Focus all of its attention on grappling an opponent. If it does this, its grapple check suffers no penalties, but it can't focus on fighting other opponents with its other arms, legs, etc.

2) Or it can try to multitask: it can hold the opponent while also fighting other opponents with other arms, legs, etc. If it does this, its grapple check to maintain the hold suffers a -20 penalty because it's trying to multitask.

Does that make sense?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Does that make sense?

That's essentially it, yeah.

-Hyp.