Improved Overrun

[Uruush]

I've read the 3.5 PHB Errata, and am aware of the Overrun corrections, but I still have a question. Table 5-1 Feats has a listed benefit of "+4 on overrun attempts; no attack of opportunity" for Improved Overrun. (PHB, p. 91). It seems to indicate that no opportunity attack is allowed against a character using overrun who has this feat, similar to the proffered benefits of Improved Bull Rush and Improved Sunder. When I read the feat description on p.96, it does not indicate that an opportunity attack is prevented, nor does the description of the combat action on p.157.

So is the Table 5-1 incorrect, or was that benefit left out of the text on p.96 and p.157?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Ottergame]

When text and a table are different, the text is always right.

 

[Stalker0]

When text and a table are different, the text is always right.

except when its not

 

[Uruush]

except when its not

Seriously, does anyone have an official ruling? This should be in their errata. You'd think when they were "errata-ing" overrun they would have said something about this one way or another. If Improved Overrun does not prevent an attack of opportunity, it works different from Improved Sunder, Improved Trip, and Improved Bull Rush...

 

[Uruush]

(double post)

 

[Amal Shukup]

Seriously, does anyone have an official ruling? This should be in their errata. You'd think when they were "errata-ing" overrun they would have said something about this one way or another. If Improved Overrun does not prevent an attack of opportunity, it works different from Improved Sunder, Improved Trip, and Improved Bull Rush...

No official ruling, but an Interpretation/House Rule that I find works for me. It came out of the following:

"You can attempt an overrun as a standard action taken during your move, or as part of a charge."

Peanut gallery erupts:
"How does this work if you're not even allowed to contemplate a Charge if something is in the way? Blargh!"

"Whaddya mean an enemy can choose to avoid me and allow me to continue my charge, but my ally has no such option?! Are ya new?"

"Are you trying to tell me that a CR1/16 Kobold child can step in front of my Charging Raging Epic Barbarian and Force me to waste my one and only Standard Action plowing through him instead of whackin' the chortling BBEG (who looks suspiciously like Skip Williams)??!!"
​

Teeth Gnashed. Players whined... Killed their PCs on spec of course. Hate whiney players...

After much noodling, I decided that Overrun was not supposed to be any sort of action ('special standard action', indeed) but a NON-action that could occur during Movement. As such, it could happen just moving or during the movement portion of a Charge.

(I think at some point this was what was intended but when they goofed up the Charge rules, they took this down with it...)

This interpretation allows a character to Charge through a defender to get at the backfield, or when a Character Charges the big bad and his lackeys use readied actions to block. Overrun is resolved as per the book - AOOs and all - and if the Character wins/survives, he gets to continue his charge to his target and resolve his attack normally.

Made perfect sense to me. Like a Linebacker bashing through the O-line to get at the QB.

Making it a non-action rather than a 'special-exceptional-unique-Standard-Action-you-take-out-of-sequence', eliminated much sillyness. Also, as it seems a defender could concievably make multiple AOOs (if he had Combat Reflexes) even while avoiding the attempt, it doesn't strike me as overpowering - particularly as the Improved Overrun Feat doesn't prevent the AOOs.

That ruling plus removing the (IMHO) sillyness of not being allowed to charge through a Friendly Square (?!) eliminated much teeth gnashing at our table.

But it ain't a real 'official ruling', its a House Rule. Sorry.

A'Mal

 

[shilsen]

No official ruling, but an Interpretation/House Rule that I find works for me. It came out of the following:

"You can attempt an overrun as a standard action taken during your move, or as part of a charge."​

Actually the "or as part of a charge" has been errataed out in 3.5.​

 

[Li Shenron]

I've read the 3.5 PHB Errata, and am aware of the Overrun corrections, but I still have a question. Table 5-1 Feats has a listed benefit of "+4 on overrun attempts; no attack of opportunity" for Improved Overrun. (PHB, p. 91). It seems to indicate that no opportunity attack is allowed against a character using overrun who has this feat, similar to the proffered benefits of Improved Bull Rush and Improved Sunder. When I read the feat description on p.96, it does not indicate that an opportunity attack is prevented, nor does the description of the combat action on p.157.

So is the Table 5-1 incorrect, or was that benefit left out of the text on p.96 and p.157?

As a matter of fact, the SRD says that it is not the Overrun action itself which provokes an AoO, but the AoO is provoked by moving into the defender's square. A subtle difference, that is also visible in the SRD table "Actions in Combat", Overrun -> AoO=no.

The feat description doesn't negate the AoO from moving.

That said, true that "overrun as part of a charge" option has been... ehm... overrun by the 3.5 errata (sorry ).

 

[Ottergame]

Seriously, does anyone have an official ruling?

The offical ruling is that the text is right and the table is wrong.

 

[Artoomis]

Can't charge through friendly-occupied squares or use Overrrun with Charge.

Stupidest .... errata ..... ever.

Ignored in our game. Instead, the rule of charging is slightly modified to bring it in line with the rest of the rules and you CAN go through friendly-occupied squares.