Improving magic items

[Mirtek]

From the excerpt I know that you can disenchant an existing item and gain enough residuum for a new item 5 level lower or that when you create a new item it costs exactly as much as buying it.

But what about improving items? If I have a +1 weapon, can I improve it to a +2 item or a +1 flaming item and pay only the price difference like in 3.x?

Or do you always need to start from scratch (disenchant the old and start creating a brand new item)?

 

[neoweasel]

From the excerpt I know that you can disenchant an existing item and gain enough residuum for a new item 5 level lower or that when you create a new item it costs exactly as much as buying it.

But what about improving items? If I have a +1 weapon, can I improve it to a +2 item or a +1 flaming item and pay only the price difference like in 3.x?

Or do you always need to start from scratch (disenchant the old and start creating a brand new item)?

I don't think there are any rules that allow it, but you could easily houserule it in without TOO many balance problems.

On the one hand, it does increase the amount of power available to the PCs (get (value of item 1 + 1/5 value of item 2) vs (1/5 value of item 1 + 1/5 value of item 2)). It also reduces the flexibility of the Enchant Item in that particular case (improving item vs choosing the preferred item).

On the other hand, a lot of people talk about how they really like the idea of a character sticking with the weapon (s)he started with, and that would allow it without gimping the character too much.

It's the sort of thing that I would never allow in a tournament or con and would almost certainly allow in a home campaign. If the PCs got too powerful in a home campaign, you can always reduce the treasure output until their personal wealth got more in line with the assumed wealth.

 

[Revinor]

There is for sure one issue with magic armor. +3->+4 and +5->+6 transition requires changing the way armor is constructed (different type of masterwork). I don't really see a possibility of normal plate suddenly becoming dwarf made warplate just because of enchanting it from +3 to +4.

I would be also very careful for changing the type of the ability. Different types of abilities suggest different 'fluff' materials - again, boar hide +1 will not suddenly change to hydra hide just because you enchant it.

For simple adding bonuses withing same tier of masterwork quality and same special ability type, I don't see any reason why not to.

 

[Mirtek]

While the different tiers of armor are certainly a problem for upgrading items, I was thinking more about weapons.

My cleric enchants his own blade as soon as he can, but only as a +1 weapon because he can't enchant it at anything better as his level.

3 level later my cleric would be able to enchant his blade as a +1 flaming blade.

So could he upgrade his trusted blade or would he have to disenchant it and enchant an different sword as a +1 flaming weapon (only to disenchant that 3 levels latter because no he could make a +2 flaming sword and can't improve his +1 flaming weapon)

 

[malraux]

I would say that you could upgrade a weapon from its +1 to its +2 version (etc) without disenchanting it. But not necessarily change it from one type to another.

The upgrading only changes the price by ~15%, so its not going to affect stuff too much, especially with the exponential price growth.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

It must be a normal item and the component cost is equal to the price of the magic item you create as per the PHB page 304.

 

[Tenebras]

I don't think that the sentimental character should be penalized or rewarded with respect to his more mercenary counterpart.

The costs don't matter in the actual specifics, so let's just say that a +1 sword is worth 1000g and a +1 flaming sword is worth 4000g. If you disenchant an item you get 1/5 its worth in residuum (or whatever) towards making a new weapon. So gramps' orcsticker is worth 200g towards the creation of a +1 flaming sword. You scrape up the remaining 3800g and you're good.

From the perspective of the people around the table, you disenchant your old sword and enchant a new sword with the properties you wanted. From the perspective of the characters sitting around the magic circle you put gramps' sword onto the ritual anvil and imbued it with arcane fire.

Is this the issue we're trying to work out?

 

[Anax]

Easy peasy.

You can upgrade a magic item from having one magical effect to another for the cost of the new weapon less the cost of a weapon five levels lower than the old weapon.

In short: Just do it as if you were destroying one weapon and then constructing another, but do it all in one step. Voila.