D&D 5E In Search Of: The 5e Dungeon Master's Guide

[UngainlyTitan]

Great post, Snarf. Glad to see your team of researchers hard at work.

Since editions don’t matter and it’s all one D&D now…

If people want a toolbox of optional rules, read the 5E DMG.

If people want to learn how to run the game, read the 4E DMGs, Return of the Lazy Dungeon Master, X-Treme Dungeon Mastery, and the WEG Star Wars GM Handbook.

I will second the Return of the Lazy Dungeon Master.

 

[Shiroiken]

But could its contents be organized better for newcomer GMs? That's the question going forward with One D&D.

I'll agree the formatting is really bad. The 5E DMG is better than I give it credit for, but the layout is such that finding things without bookmarks is tricky at best. I've found it useful to just print out the handful of pages I regularly need, and have a bookmark for the magic items section.

IMO, the DMG shouldn't be written for newcomer GMs - they're better off being pointed to the Starter Set and the "how to DM" videos that of course WotC have on their various channels. (I mean, surely they must have such things, and they're really easy to find...?)

Not likely to happen, because they'd get people upset at having to purchase an additional product. I think the very first chapter at the beginning should address styles of play and DMing, setting the tone for reading the rest of the book. It'll be skipped by intermediate DMs (like it was in 4E), but it's vital for new DMs.

 

[pointofyou]

IMO, the DMG shouldn't be written for newcomer GMs - they're better off being pointed to the Starter Set and the "how to DM" videos that of course WotC have on their various channels. (I mean, surely they must have such things, and they're really easy to find...?)

IMO, the DMG should be aimed at DMs of intermediate skill - they should be assumed to have already run a game or two, know more or less what's what, and therefore the goal should primarily be to provide practical tools and experience to help them make their games better. So provide lots of tools to reliably construct encounters/adventures/campaigns of various types and styles, discussions of player and DM types and motivations, and so on and so forth.

(And the DMG probably shouldn't be aimed primarily at expert DMs either. Partly because they probably know it all anyway, but mostly because such DMs are inevitably very much the minority.)

My hopes for the new version of the game are mostly pinned on this new DMG. Alas, those hopes are fading.

If the DMG is a Core Book it should absolutely be written with beginning DMs in mind. The biggest problems in the 5e Core Books all stem from the fact they were written for people who'd been playing D&D for a decade or two. Core Books written for new players cannot be anything other than an improvement.

 

[Oofta]

If the DMG is a Core Book it should absolutely be written with beginning DMs in mind. The biggest problems in the 5e Core Books all stem from the fact they were written for people who'd been playing D&D for a decade or two. Core Books written for new players cannot be anything other than an improvement.

Starter sets are for newbie DM. It's best to have an actual adventure to walk through. In addition, they're starting to combine videos with free intro encounters.

The DMG is for experienced DMs from other editions and the person that already knows the game and wants to switch from player to DM.

 

[pointofyou]

Starter sets are for newbie DM. It's best to have an actual adventure to walk through. In addition, they're starting to combine videos with free intro encounters.

The DMG is for experienced DMs from other editions and the person that already knows the game and wants to switch from player to DM.

Yes. The Starter and Beginner Sets are pretty OK for what they do but walking someone through running the game is not the same as teaching them to do so. Are the adventures in those sets written in ways to actually teach people how to run and play? I have not seen that they are but I have not read any of them closely.

It also seems that if you publish a Dungeon Master's Guide it should be useful to a new GM.

 

[Xamnam]

Really, how to start DMing from scratch should be, names be damned, in the Players Handbook, at least to a serviceable degree.

Lost Mines does a decent job on supporting the DM, but that's more in how it communicates information. It starts high structure, low complexity, and those swap over the course of the chapters. The first encounter, for example, gives direct advice for what to do if the players are defeated, or run away. XP is given as a total for the first chapter, on a per encounter basis in chapters 2 and 3, and then just as a statblock component for chapter 4. However, the basic rule book included does more to explicitly "teach" how to DM than the content of the adventure.

And while video can be helpful, it should never be considered a replacement for well-written text.

 

[Cadence]

Really, how to start GMing from scratch should be, names be damned, in the Players Handbook, at least to a serviceable degree.

The PHB has always struck me as an awful book for teaching players to play too. Here, lets bury you in things about making a character (with lots of mechanics and modifiers) before you really have a clue how they work. Feels like introducing how to play using pregens would be the way to go.

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How many pages woud it take at the front of the PHB to make a nice introduction to play for players, and at the front of the DMG to make a nice introduction to DMing for DMs?

 

[UngainlyTitan]

The PHB has always struck me as an awful book for teaching players to play too. Here, lets bury you in things about making a character (with lots of mechanics and modifiers) before you really have a clue how they work. Feels like introducing how to play using pregens would be the way to go.

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How many pages woud it take at the front of the PHB to make a nice introduction to play for players, and at the front of the DMG to make a nice introduction to DMing for DMs?

I think that some information on playstyles and the table social contract could be useful in the players handbook.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

The PHB has always struck me as an awful book for teaching players to play too. Here, lets bury you in things about making a character (with lots of mechanics and modifiers) before you really have a clue how they work. Feels like introducing how to play using pregens would be the way to go.

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How many pages woud it take at the front of the PHB to make a nice introduction to play for players, and at the front of the DMG to make a nice introduction to DMing for DMs?

I think that a book that breaks down an adventure, how it was designed and how you would run it or better yet a YouTube series. Get a couple of DMs to run a short 2 to 3 hour adventure and then break down the design. How the different groups played it, how the DMs handled it with emphasis on where they party/DMs went off script would be very useful.
Get Matt Colville to do it.

 

[Xamnam]

How many pages woud it take at the front of the PHB to make a nice introduction to play for players, and at the front of the DMG to make a nice introduction to DMing for DMs?

Not to bang on the same drum as other threads, but by the 4e book standards, about 10 pages does at least an okay job.

On that note, the 4e DMG does include a starting village and a five area dungeon as an example to run new players through, which I think the 5e books are sorely missing. That, along with 10 or so pre-generated characters for those that want them (there are already 12 different ones on the WotC website! All the way to level 10 for each! (but weirdly, not in a character sheet format) And that doesn't include the LMoP and DoSI ones that are also accessible.) in the PHB, would be a great addition.