D&D 5E Initial D&D Next Releases Showing Up on Barnes & Noble Website

[Imaro]

Which is what I've been trying to say to @Imaro , that the DMG is likely not necessary to play the game at all as it will instead be presented as a series of optional rules.

[MENTION=2525]Mistwell[/MENTION] apparently while trying to convey this to me you left out some pretty pertinent details, mainly that the DMG information will either be online or in the starter set... Because if online is ok, then PF has a bestiary and a ton of supplements and so on available with just a corebook purchase and if it's in the starter set... I have to spend another $20 to get the DM stuff... neither of which was mentioned once in your posts in the other thread... where you said the PHB contained everything needed to run the game.

 

[Mistwell]

[MENTION=2525]Mistwell[/MENTION] apparently while trying to convey this to me you left out some pretty pertinent details, mainly that the DMG information will either be online or in the starter set...

I didn't leave it out, because we don't know that, and it's not relevant in that there is nothing known to be in the DMG (or online), that will be necessary to play the game.

That's what I am saying. That you don't need the DMG at all, online information or no online information, to play the game just fine.

I am asking you to respond to that. If it will help, just take it as a hypothetical: assume you won't need the DMG to play 5e (even absent anything online). Assume the only thing you'd be missing, if you had no DMG, is optional stuff and helpful advice that isn't necessary.

Assume also you can make NPCs using the PHB to the same extet you can with Pathfinder.

Now, given those assumptions, are you OK with the $50 PHB price for 5e?

 

[Imaro]

I didn't leave it out, because we don't know that, and it's not relevant in that there is nothing known to be in the DMG (or online), that will be necessary to play the game.

That's what I am saying. That you don't need the DMG at all, online information or no online information, to play the game just fine.

If we don't know what is or isn't in the actual DMG how can you make this statement, especially when every other edition has had required information, rules,etc. in the DMG?

EDIT: In absence of concrete information we can only draw on past experiences... why should we assume they will be totally different than they have for the past 30+ years??

I am asking you to respond to that. If it will help, just take it as a hypothetical: assume you won't need the DMG to play 5e (even absent anything online). Assume the only thing you'd be missing, if you had no DMG, is optional stuff and helpful advice that isn't necessary.

Assume also you can make NPCs using the PHB to the same extet you can with Pathfinder.

Now, given those assumptions, are you OK with the $50 PHB price for 5e?

Yes but why are we assuming all this when the history of D&D speaks against it? It's like saying assume this one time water won't get your hand wet and has the exact same resistance as air when you dip your fingers in it... even though every other time it hasn't, assume that your hand can still pass through it like it normally does, now what's the difference between passing your hand through air or water... Why am I assuming this?

 

[darjr]

I re-read my post in case I said something I didn't intend and nope, I didn't. Nowhere did I say or imply you don't have other games to play.

I'm saying IF YOU WANT THIS PARTICULAR GAME, and you cannot afford the full retail price, why wouldn't you just buy it online instead?

Personally I have a valid reason not to buy it at $50. Can you just leave it at that?

 

[Mistwell]

If we don't know what is or isn't in the actual DMG how can you make this statement, especially when every other edition has had required information, rules,etc. in the DMG?

Well obviously we can't know as it's not out yet. But we can know what's in the playtest documents and what they've said, and I am going off those. Have your read the playtest document and played the game to see whether you ever need the DM book portion of it? I have, and you don't. It's all advice and optional rules.

EDIT: In absence of concrete information we can only draw on past experiences... why should we assume they will be totally different than they have for the past 30+ years??

I found the 4e DMG to be almost completely absent of anything I needed to play the game, particularly once Essentials came out. Did you find it required?

Yes but why are we assuming all this when the history of D&D speaks against it?

Well first I don't think it does with 4e, and second because we have the playtest documents and what they've said and experience from playtesting it.

So I say again, assume you don't need the DMG to play 5e. If that is the case, and also assuming you can make NPCs using the PHB, are you OK with the $50 price?

It's like saying assume this one time water won't get your hand wet and has the exact same resistance as air when you dip your fingers in it... even though every other time it hasn't, assume that your hand can still pass through it like it normally does, now what's the difference between passing your hand through air or water... Why am I assuming this?

Yeah this isn't a law of physics, this is just a game. WOTC has gone from "Need the DMG for various things" with 3.0, to "need it less" with 3.5, to "Need it very little if at all" with 4e, to "Don't really need it at all" with Essentials, and it seems from the playtest and what they've said that it's now "You won't need it at all" to play 5e. I don't view this as some immutable law that never varies and it requires the Word of God to alter it.

So, assuming you don't need it, are you now OK with the price?

 

[Cybit]

Seeing as the entire public playtest has been done without a DMG - I'm guessing the PH & MM will be the two necessary documents.

Couple of thoughts

I am skeptical about the dates (for various reasons I cannot discuss); I think those dates are too early. I would expect PHB at GenCon IMO; and I would expect GenCon to beat the street date by 2-3 weeks. I think you will be able to buy the PHB at both GenCon and PAX Prime prior to worldwide release.

$50 seems a little too much, I think B&N jumped the gun on price & release date. A June release date would imply that the books are going to the printer now, and I'm highly skeptical of that.

The other thought is this:
PH: $49.99
DMG: $29.99
MM: $39.99

All Three Books in a bundle: $100 ($99.99)

The idea being that in a group, everyone buys the PH, but in many groups, one person buys the DMG / MM. So, mark up the PHB, drop the other two. Ends up being the same price as normal for all three books combined, but make more money off the people who just buy the PHB.

I fully expect there to be PDF copies for sale; and I am hoping that they will go down the route of "buy the book, get PDF for free, tied to your dndclassics.com acct". The PDFs will probably be like 30% cheaper initially than the books, and then (ala Paizo) will drop dramatically as time goes on.

 

[GX.Sigma]

That would be even nicer, but at a $20 price point I really don't see that happening.

I think it's possible. Moldvay Basic came with a 64-page rulebook and a 32-page adventure, and that was a full game. We know from the 4e Red Box that they can do more than that at $20.

 

[dm4hire]

I fully expect there to be PDF copies for sale; and I am hoping that they will go down the route of "buy the book, get PDF for free, tied to your dndclassics.com acct". The PDFs will probably be like 30% cheaper initially than the books, and then (ala Paizo) will drop dramatically as time goes on.

Paizo has charged $10 for the core books since day one, unless you subscribe and then you get them for free.

 

[Wulfgar76]

If you don't want to spend $50 on an expensive book that's fine - perfectly valid opinion, no explanation necessary.

But if you would happily pay $40 for a PHB, and $10 is your deal-breaker, then I say you are full of it - the real reason is not the price, but other things.

And you are even more full of crap if you already paid $50 for another game's core book, and you are now complaining about the PHB costing the same.

 

[Morrus]

If you don't want to spend $50 on an expensive book that's fine - perfectly valid opinion, no explanation necessary.

But if you would happily pay $40 for a PHB, and $10 is your deal-breaker, then I say you are full of it - the real reason is not the price, but other things.

And you are even more full of crap if you already paid $50 for another game's core book, and you are now complaining about the PHB costing the same.

Earlier you were calling people whiners. Now you're telling them they're "full of crap". Please don't post again in this thread; I don't need my phone interrupting my evening with a deluge of post reports. And please rethink your approach to posting.

And there are other people in this thread and the other one who are skirting the line. Keep it civil, keep it polite, please. If you feel angry, step away and do something else until you calm down, and if you see problem posts, report them rather than rising to the bait. Thank you.